Kata, Forgotten or Hidden by the Kodokan?

[gavinslater]

Hi Mark,

We did it in the form of a kata, plus there were the other techniques as well. I was told that the kata came from Mifune, then Ichiro Abe brought it to Europe when he came to France in the mid/late 1940's (where Kawaishi was). He was one of Mifune's students.

Regards,

Gavin.

[Chuck Clark]

But Mark...

It's written and published in a BOOK. That means it's gotta be true! Doesn't it??????

And, if that isn't true....what about all of the other stuff in the book?

Caveat Emptor

Hi, Gavin,
Thanks. Since I last posted, I'v gone over the go no sen no kata as layed out by Kawaishi, and all the waza seem to also be Kodokan waza. As to Mifune and the Kodokan differing, this would not be the first time. It seems the committee did not approve of others going about "inventing" kata, and Mifune was even turned down with his kukinage being a separate kata. Not everyone can be a founder, but people "found" things all the time. Even Kano, while watching a performance of the ju no kata, when noticing that something was changed by someone at the Budokwai, only mentioned it: "This is a modification of the ju no kata." He then joked that he had been doing it for forty years, and was pretty sure he could do the first two.

Yes, Chuck,

It must be true as all books are true. Caveat emptor? Well, my mother always said: "Don't believe anything you see or hear, nor an nth of what you read." I don't think this is the nth.

BTW: I did a check, again, of the SSA death index, and, again, there is no evidence of one Isao Obata/o. in the Phoenix area, nor Arizona at all (which everyone here knows). There was, however, a Misao Obata, but the dates are way off, and this one passed away in Los Angeles.

Then again, angels are all the rage again, so who knows?

[Jonsey]

See attached for my humble attempt to synthesise a table of the non-Kodokan kata of throwing techniques.

I would be interested if anyone has a reference to Mifune's Katame-Ura-no-Kata and a list of the techniques contained therein.

[Brian Griffin]

Originally Posted by Jonsey

See attached for my humble attempt to synthesise a table of the non-Kodokan kata of throwing techniques.

Excellent. Thank you.

The Go-no-Sen no Kata was indeed associated mainly with Waseda University and was not part of the syllabus at Kodokan Dojo. Kawaishi brought it to Europe.

The interesting thing about Mifune's Nage-Ura no Kata is that it seems designed as a series of counters to much of the standard Nage no Kata.

Look at the first three techniques and you'll see they could be practiced as an elaboration/extension of the first set of Nage no Kata. There are no counters given for the sutemiwaza, of course, and tsurikomigoshi is missing, but it's interesting nonetheless.