Is Daito-ryu the only style of Aikijujutsu?

[Lance Gatling]

Originally Posted by Benkei the Monk

For my purpose of knowing, I was wondering yesterday about the term Aikijujutsu. This term appears in some other schools other than Daito Ryu.

Excluding evident fakes or fraudolent masters, is there some sort of Aiki system other than the Aiki studied in Daito Ryu?

For a reference, I was reading Harrison's book about his Japanese experience during pre war period at the Kodokan. There is a chapter in which he met a master of a koryu system (it is not reported what school was)and the master gave a demonstration of some aiki.

So is there another "aiki way" other than Daito way?

I have prewar documents that show other, perhaps modern rather than koryu aikijujutsu references.

One is a 1927 compendium of Japanese martial arts written by Dai Nippon Butokukai member.

Another is an original 1937 Kobukan dojo lesson plan for Tomiki-sensei's aikijujutsu instruction of the Kwantung Army (Japanese Imperial Army in Manchuria) Military Police. That lesson plan was later made into a classified military manual.

Tomiki sensei was in Manchuria primarily as a martial arts instructor at Kenkoku University.

[Mark Jakabcsin]

Originally Posted by Lance Gatling

Another is an original 1937 Kobukan dojo lesson plan for Tomiki-sensei's aikijujutsu instruction of the Kwantung Army (Japanese Imperial Army in Manchuria) Military Police. That lesson plan was later made into a classified military manual.

Tomiki sensei was in Manchuria primarily as a martial arts instructor at Kenkoku University.

Remember that Tomiki's first license from Ueshiba was in Daito-ryu and was awarded, I believe, before the name Aikido was even used.

MJ

[George Kohler]

Originally Posted by don

No expert am I, but I think we must factor in Ueshiba Morihei. It was at the suggestion of Ueshiba's guru, Deguchi Onisaburo, that Takeda changed the name of his art to "aiki"-whatever. I suspect that this is not due wholly to any technical resonances with the prevailing concepts of aiki, but rather due to what has been characterized as "phonetic etymology," i.e., punning.

I wonder sometimes if the reason for the name change from jujutsu to aikijujutsu was because there was another Daito-ryu jujutsu during that time.

See this post http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showpost...3&postcount=18

[Eric Joyce]

Nathan,

Very interesting thread. If you get a moment, I sent you a PM. Thanks.

[Lance Gatling]

Originally Posted by George Kohler

I wonder sometimes if the reason for the name change from jujutsu to aikijujutsu was because there was another Daito-ryu jujutsu during that time.

See this post http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showpost...3&postcount=18

This is a dry hole - IIRC the Daito-ryu in question turns out to be primarily a sword style. Sekiguchi ryu as practiced now in Kumamoto is primarily a sword style, too.

[Nathan Scott]

Hi all,

The first date shown in the edited/compiled version of Sokaku's eimeiroku is 1887. It is likely he was teaching on some level before this date, but this is a date we have for sure.

Sokaku changed the name of the art from Jujutsu to Aikijujutsu in 1922, before the above mentioned references. He may have began "trying out" the name for a few years prior to that in seminars as well.

As far as Daito-ryu schools, that does sound familiar. I see that the BRDJ lists ... it looks like ... (3) other schools using the same Daito-ryu name and kanji, with numerous more using the name "Daito-ryu" but using different kanji (homophones). The same-kanji schools include (1) that is based on Sekiguchi-ryu jujutsu as mentioned in the above link; (1) that teaches shurikenjutsu, (1) that teaches aiki and michibiki (techniques for "leading" an opponent). Aside from the Sekiguchi-ryu derivative, the other entries do not have much information. There is a main entry for Sokaku's Daito-ryu, but also additional entries for Daito-ryu AJJ Kodokai and Daito-ryu Aikibudo, so it's possible the shuriken school may be a repeat entry for Sokaku's shuriken method. It would appear that the Sekiguchi-ryu derivative and michibiki school are perhaps unique.

The Daito-ryu aiki / michibiki school says it was passed down from the Murakami Genji ( 村上源氏 ). Murakami Genji refers to the Minamoto descendents of Emperor Murakami (946-967). Seiwa Genji (Sokaku's Daito-ryu) refers to the Minamoto descendents of Emperor Seiwa (858-876). So whoever propagated the other Daito-ryu is saying it is basically the same art, passed down through the Minamoto descendents of a different (later) line. Based on Sokaku's oral history, this doesn't sound possible.

Either way it is interesting to see other schools with the same kanji being used. It's possible the name was changed because of this, but I'm under the impression it was changed because aiki was something Sokaku was using for his armed and unarmed techniques, and therefore could be considered the core/common theme of his teachings and art. This could also be when the jujutsu, aikijutsu, aikijujutsu structure was created.

Regards,

[oneroundleft]

I notice that no one has made any mention of Don Angier's Yanagi Ryu Aikijujutsu. I was curious as to the Daito Ryu community's general consensus on that art is?

[Richard Elias]

Post number #7 of this thread.

[Nathan Scott]

From the Aiki News interview Kondo Katsuyuki Sensei "Budo and Life are One in the Same" from issue #80, 1989:

Aiki News: In some martial art magazines published in the US, you find names uses such as "Aikijutsu" or "Aikijujutsu". Readers of those magazines are left with the strong impression that Aikijutsu or Aikijujutsu are the same as Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. Would you explain the difference for our foreign readers?

Kondo Sensei: I believe that this is proof that the true value of Daito-ryu has been recognized. Whatever name they are using, if they trace back the origin of the art, I believe they are sure to come to Sokaku Takeda Sensei of Daito-ryu. However, I don't think that this means that their art is Daito-ryu. The lineal descendants of Daito-ryu bear the name of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu or Daito-ryu Aikibudo, and are recognized by the headmaster Tokimune Takeda Sensei.

Regards,

[romaddan]

I am in the process of looking for instruction in (aiki) jujitsu and (possibly) ken/Iaijutsu -though I would prefer a complete system. I understand that finding a complete system is unlikely within the vicinity in which I am looking. I am putting in the legwork of researching different schools (style, history, philosophy and legitimacy) and do not expect to be spoon-feed information concerning locations of instructors or dojos (I won’t turn away any information either…lol). What I am looking for is guidance.

I realize I may have to travel for proper instruction, which I am willing to do (within reason). There are members both on the Aikijujitsu & Sword Arts forums that must travel to continue their education and if they can do it, so can I. I am going to ask questions that are going to sound naïve however; I want to do this right.

• I know frequency of training, dedication, aptitude [student & instructor] all goes into learning and being a good pupil. Depending on the distance, I figure that I will be able to attend lessons between once (maybe twice) a week (local) to once a month (if I have to travel far). So my first set of questions (finally) are:
o As a novice, would twice a month (average) be enough?
o Would it be wise to practice (what was taught in class) between lessons (question is focused more toward ken)?

• Shortly, I am going to contact representatives of different ryuha’s which I am interested (namely Daito Ryu (Mainline (Kondo) or Daitokai), Hakuho ryu, Yanagi Ryu(or off shoot), ect.) to find if they have [non- publicized] instruction available with-in the area which I am willing to travel and introduce myself to them. My next set of questions are:
o What is the proper way to contact these representatives (call, email or letter)?
o If letter or email, what information do I provide about myself (martial arts history, career history, if I am married have kids, ECT)? What are they looking for?

I have looked locally to see what’s available. I have found an “Atemi Ryu Aikido/Jujitsu”, “Renzoko Kaarate Kobujitsu ryu” (a composite system—which of course claims Daito Ryu), & “Kokusai Jujutsu”. Every thing else in my area is TKD, BJJ & MAA. I don't even have a local Aikido Dojo (That didn’t sound right) which at this point I would kill for.

Anyways, I would appreciate any [knowledgeable] advice, hints, or remarks. Please don’t come back with statements like “If you (I) can’t find what you're looking for, move." Uncle Sam tells me where I live (though I am scouting out a few areas where he can send me that have the type of instruction I'm looking for…hehehe)

v/r

Dc

[A.J. Bryant]

Daniel,

If you're interested in a branch of Hakko-ryu Jujutsu, Col. (ret.) Roy J. Hobbs Sensei will be teaching a seminar at the Seidokan Dojo in Leland, NC, the 27th-29th of August. It might lead to other training opportunities if you speak to Hobbs sensei about your situation.

You can read more about it and download a flyer here (see top news item):

http://www.dentokanhombu.com/2.0/news.htm

[JNavarro]

Daniel,
In regards to Hakuho Ryu, our US dojos are located in Southeast Michigan.

[Jose Garrido]

Daniel,

One of our Instructors has just recently moved to North Carolina. If you are interested in mainline Daito-ryu look here www.daito-ryu.org and go to locations. Juan Ribot from Hawaii is now in North Carolina. Contact the Hombu or email him for contact info. He also does some Katori Shinto-ryu, but I do not know if he is allowed to teach it.

Good luck in your search and feel free to contact me if you cannot get a hold of Juan. I will then get a hold of him for you.

Jose Garrido

[bu-kusa]

Originally Posted by romaddan

I am in the process of looking for instruction in (aiki) jujitsu and (possibly) ken/Iaijutsu -though I would prefer a complete system.

I have looked locally to see what’s available. I have found an “Kokusai Jujutsu”.

If its this 'Kokusai Jujutsu' :

http://www.genbukan.org/cgi-bin/site.pl?kokusai

Then you will have access to solid Japanese Jujutsu and Kenjutsu.

[romaddan]

To everybody who have given me advice, guidance and information (both in the open and PM). Thank you.

I have contacted a few individuals and study groups that were recommended by this group as well as what I had previously researched (Mr. Ribot of DR, Genbukan/Kokusai (If I’m unable to find a DR study Group) and a Yamauchi-Ha Muso Jikiden Eishin-ryu Iaijutsu study group).

Within the next couple I will send out more letters/emails and hopefully I'll get some positive replies back.

Once again thanks to all who helped. I’ll keep ya’ll posted.

v/r

Dan-0