Mushashi ariving late to duals

[Paul_Green]

Hi

Ive been reading on Miyamoto Musashi, and it appears that quite often he arrived late to duals. Ive been wondering if he did it on purpose, perhaps as a tactical decision- to anger or annoy his enemies.

Any thoughts?

Paul Green

PS. Although i may not be the first to think of it, i did think of it on my own. So dont be angry.

[drosera99]

Yes.

I've read that he deliberately arrived late to certain duels to anger his opponent. Most notably, he used this tactic on Sasaki Kojiro at Ganryu Island.

[Paul_Green]

Yay! I was right .


Paul Green

[drosera99]

Originally Posted by Paul_Green

Yay! I was right .


Paul Green

But I might be wrong!

Perhaps Collin Hyakutake, a mod here at e-Budo and a practitioner of Miyamoto Musashi's Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu, might have something to say about this subject.

[Fred27]

Or maybe Padawan Scott

[Walker]

If you believe the stories he was also early, or came early, but appeared late or didn't show at all.

[Benkei the Monk]

Originally Posted by Walker

If you believe the stories he was also early, or came early, but appeared late or didn't show at all.

I agree Walker. Somenone believes that his unpolite manners were studied to inducing his challengers to get upset and decreasing their concentration

[hyaku]

Originally Posted by drosera99

But I might be wrong!

Perhaps Collin Hyakutake, a mod here at e-Budo and a practitioner of Miyamoto Musashi's Hyoho Niten Ichi-ryu, might have something to say about this subject.

Well I would imagine that if you were about to fight to the death and your opponent arrived early or late you would be well put out.

Please don't say Musashi was impolite. The thing is he didnt have a watch and dislike material things anyway.

[PiersonJ]

Originally Posted by hyaku

Well I would imagine that if you were about to fight to the death and your opponent arrived early or late you would be well put out.

Please don't say Musashi was impolite. The thing is he didnt have a watch and dislike material things anyway.

If I may interject and make a blatant inquiry about the subject, which may contain negative connotations, I in no way mean to be dismissive or rude:

Certain people hold certain beliefs, that is the only thing in this life that can ever be for certain. To say with complete definition that something is certain, for a topic so uncertain as any of a historic element, we imply that we have supreme intimate knowledge with the subject.

Frankly, anyone alive today should not, with reasonable confidence, be able to say definitively one way or the other, on the intent of the 400 year old Miyamoto Musashi. I mean absolutely no disrespect, Mr. Hyaku, I understand you study the style, but whether by tactics or courtesy or even the technological inferiority of the setting, we can argue whether Musashi was impolite or unexpectedly late.

Perhaps he was or perhaps not. The proof we can argue is not of Miyamoto Musashi's own voice, but that of others.

My interpretation is that I'd like to believe Miyamoto Musashi was being tactically advantageous. Men who made their name living and dying by the sword should have practiced a little more Zen before engaging in deathly duels.
If he was impolite, then his rudeness possibly spared him his life. If he was simply late, it spared him his life. The circumstance, while interesting, is hardly as conclusive as the product: Miyamoto Musashi lived to a ripe old age, considering he faced death many times. If his reputation was besmirched, we hear nothing of it now because it didn't fit in with the writer's interpretation of history.

Kenji Tokitsu talks about Musashi's tardiness in his book, William Scott Wilson might touch upon it briefly in his translation of the Book of Five Rings.

Again, I write with no intention of slandering Musashi's name, I am inclined simply to cite the relevant truth that no one living today knows Musashi any better than anyone else currently living today.

[yoj]

Originally Posted by PiersonJ

Again, I write with no intention of slandering Musashi's name, I am inclined simply to cite the relevant truth that no one living today knows Musashi any better than anyone else currently living today.

We could say the same about Jesus, but I'm pretty sure some folk would disagree about that.....

[don]

Bobby Fischer did that to Boris Boris Spassky, too.

[bu-kusa]

Originally Posted by PiersonJ

Again, I write with no intention of slandering Musashi's name, I am inclined simply to cite the relevant truth that no one living today knows Musashi any better than anyone else currently living today.

I would tentatively put forward the opinion that current members of the school Musashi left behind (having access to the Ryu Densho & Kudan), & those who have spent years immersed in the subject (Ryu members and Professional historians), would at least have a more informed viewpoint, then a complete lay person.

[hyaku]

Saying Musashi did not have a timepiece was just lighthearted dig. There are even funnier quotes that him being late like "Musashi had exczema". Could diagnose such a skin problem in the 1600s?

There is very little known about Musashi in detail apart from shrine/temple records and stories that have been handed down. Read whatever you like, Scott-Wilson, Tokitsu but be aware that they all write to sell books. There are even books in Japanese disputing that he wrote anything. When it come to selling books that stoop quite low.

Even actual work like Gorin no sho was written in Hira Gana with Musashi stating that he would not draw on Buddhist or Confucian precepts. This leaves a lot of room for different ideas on translation.

I am still of the opinion that you need to actually practice HNIR to understand what Musashi wrote.

No matter if Mushashi was late for duels. The main thing is that we are on time to practice and devote our lives to it.

[hyaku]

As a point of interest we had a Japanese expert that studied the dates when the duel took place on Ganryu Jima, the point they both departed from. They thencompared and backdated it with tide times. Strong currents point to the fact that Musashi might have been on the island before Sasaki Kojiro.

I still wonder why we cant get a decent account from the boatmen? Thing is few people could read abd write in that era!

[ScottUK]

Originally Posted by hyaku

No matter if Mushashi was late for duels. The main thing is that we are on time to practice and devote our lives to it.

Hehe I'm gona stick this in my sig on KW. Excellent stuff.