Saigo Shiro (aka: Shida Shiro) / "Yama arashi"

[yamatodamashii]

There is currently a thread in the Judo forum regarding a throw called "Yama Arashi". I do not consider myself a Judoka, but I did have the opportunity to work out under a rokudan in Okinawa.
Quickly cutting to the point: My instructor, when the topic came up, said that "Yama Arashi" was an Aikijutsu technique. Could someone verify that for me? If YA is in the Daito-ryu curriculum, how it executed?

Yama Arashi is the technique introduced by Shiro Saigo, then formerly of Daito Ryu Aiki Ju Jutsu, while competing under the Judo banner.

Hope that this info is useful.

Prof. Darrell Sarjeant

[Brently Keen]

It's a Daito-ryu secret.

Supposedly at the time, Shiro Saigo was the only one who could execute this technique (yama arashi). Although there are several other techniques that go by the name "yama arashi", Saigo's technique was not passed on in Judo. Even in Daito-ryu, there seems to be much speculation as to which technique it may have been.

Tradition has it that Shiro Saigo, the adopted son of Tanomo Saigo was the first designated heir of Daito-ryu's "oshikiuchi" from which Daito-ryu's aikijujutsu is said to derive. But eventually, Sokaku Takeda replaced him.

Supposedly, Saigo was torn between loyalty to Jigoro Kano and Daito-ryu, so he retired to Kyushu where he continued to practice only swimming and kyudo. He had no students and his "yama arashi" technique may have even died with him. Of course every imitation Daito-ryu group now claims a secret link to either Shiro and/or his adopted father Tanomo, because they have no link to Sokaku Takeda who as the reviver of the tradition (chuko no so), was the first to teach Daito-ryu to outsiders. But there is no evidence whatsoever to support these so called Saigo-ha claims.

Okamoto sensei has not said what he knows of this technique (yama arashi), prefering that we don't waste our energy memorizing the names of techniques, or speculating about history, but instead he says, "Just practice".

"If you master aiki", he says, "you can do yama arashi or any other technique." Then he does several differnt techniques, and each time he smiles and calls it "yama arashi". He was clearly implying that the name of the techniques don't mean anything.

There's no doubt that many folks today would like to discover what this mysterious technique may have been like, in the hopes that they might discover some "secret trick" that would enable them to defeat today's NHB champions. Childish fantasies aside, I interpret Okamoto sensei's comments to mean that even if this technique was passed down within Daito-ryu and known by him or any of the other Daito-ryu masters, that it would prove useless to everyone else unless they had first mastered "aiki", therefore he'd prefer that we train in such a way as to master the "essence" of Daito-ryu, rather than worry about various specific techniques. This is consistent with the idea that "aiki" is an essential component of Daito-ryu's rather unique operating system.

It was said by other "jujutsu/judoka" at the time that Saigo's techniques were unique to him. It wasn't just that no one else could copy his techniques, but also that Saigo was able to effectively use these sophisticated techniques against the most skilled and feared jujutsu fighters of the day. His skill was naturally attributed to the training he received as a youth in Aizu. Although he was he was competing in matches and tournaments for Jigoro Kano, helping to promote Judo at the time, it's generally understood that he used "aiki" techniques and principles he learned from the "oshikiuchi" in order to win. Although these rough and tumble challenge matches were a far cry from the Judo tournaments of today, they were still competetive matches.

Another time when asked about it, Okamoto sensei said something like, "Yama arashi is a technique for shiai, Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu is for real situations."

FWIW.

Brently Keen

[MarkF]

Originally posted by Brently Keen

Supposedly at the time, Shiro Saigo was the only one who could execute this technique (yama arashi). Although there are several other techniques that go by the name "yama arashi", Saigo's technique was not passed on in Judo. Even in Daito-ryu, there seems to be much speculation as to which technique it may have been.

I agree with Brently, as this is the story. No one knows anything for sure, and as many judo/jujutsu ryu which exist, there are at least that many descriptions and kata of yama arashi today. But the daito ryu is one of the hard to believe, if you believe Shiro to have been only about fourteen at the time he went to the Kodokan, but even this is somewhat in doubt. From where he came, is not, as his nickname was little "Aizu" warrior, and, as of this morning, there is a description of Okazaki's kata of yama arashi (Kodenkan or danzan ryu).

There is, of course, the story that he could have not used an aiki technique because he could not have had that much instriction in daito ryu. This one, I will leave to whomever wants to reveal it, as it matters little.

I also agree with Brently in that names of technique do not matter at all. My second, and last, instructor, had never taught by way of terminology, even though he was from Japan, so there is good thinking here, as well. To this day, after thirty-seven years of judo, I must look at a book or the handout I have just given my students for the techniques they will be learning in the next however many weeks. This is either due to my teacher or my memory. I do not remember which . Naming techniques, especially if you do not speak the language, has little to do with waza. Doing the waza is always of much more importance. Now this is not what my elders or peers think, in general, but it does have merit. The stories of a clash between Takeda Sokaku and Kano Jigoro are just that: stories. Either way, what I know of Saigo Shiro, is that he did leave the Kodokan and did go on to do kyujutsu (kyudo). He did win the most infamous of judo shiai, or shi ni ai, and with a technique called yama arashi. Minutes were taken at the shiai but know one knows for sure. The novel Sugata Sanshiro gives us a hint in that it was written by the son of one of the contestants in those matches. The movie by that name is so censored, as to only give the appearance that it may have been a throw in which the foot does leave the ground, and it also hints that uke was thrown across the room. To see a fun, if not accurate description of the match, go to: http://www.furyu.com/archives/issue3/judo.html . But this match was sensational only in that little Shiro beat a man of fearsome talent, and of much larger build. It was another match, a draw, after 55 minutes of fighting, which is the one said to be that which put judo "on the map" to stay. The use of an aiki technique is as plausible as every other waza which is said to be YA, and, at the very least, it did leave a trail to the plausibility for aiki. Go to the judo forum for a discussion of yama arashi, and to another thread there which has taken a turn into YA territory as well, titled "poorly executed waza in shiai," I think is what it is.

Sincerely,

I HAVE SEEN AN INTERPRETATION OF YAMA ARASHI BY OBATA SENSEI IN TH BOOK Samurai Aikijitsu. Kodokan Judo also has a version but it is no longer in the sylallabus

[Brently Keen]

While I mean no disrespect to Obata sensei, he is a strong aikido teacher and very accomplished swordsman. I do not believe the book "Samurai Aikijutsu" is an authorative book about Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu techniques or history.

I believe the title more accurately reflects not the content of the techniques in the book, but rather the premise of the book which strongly stresses the legacy of the samurai spirit which still survives in some aikido styles. Obata sensei seems to lament the general tendency of most modern aikido styles to emphasize the "do" to such an extent that they lose their martial effectiveness. So the title of the book emphasizes "jutsu" instead of "do".

The book also naturally reflects Obata sensei's own philosophy and "hard style" aikido which is basically like the Yoshinkan Aikido he learned under the late Gozo Shioda sensei.

While I'll probably get flamed for saying this (I always do) it's not my intention to revive the old aiki debates. So please let's not go there again, ok? I just want to clarify what I believe, as a Daito-ryu practitioner are popular misconceptions or myths about aikijujutsu.

IMHO, the idea that Yoshinkan Aikido = aikijujutsu is incorrect. While Yoshinkan Aikido does reflect the more martial, prewar "Aikibudo" of Ueshiba sensei, both resemble (Daito-ryu) jujutsu much more than they do aikijujutsu. In Daito-ryu there is a very important distinction between the two.

Aikijujutsu is not hard style, throw him into a brick wall, combat aikido. Nor is aikijujutsu defined by painful joint locks and breaks or atemi. Aikijujutsu is soft, very soft and subtle in it's application.

Sorry for the digression here, but despite the title of the book, the techniques described in "Samurai Aikijutsu" are aikido techniques and should not be confused with aikijujutsu techniques. As for Obata sensei's version of yama arashi? My seniors in Japan didn't think so, but then again who knows if anyone knows for sure?

Brently Keen

[Nathan Scott]

Hello Mr. Keen,

Much to your surprise, I'm not going to flame the hell out of you!

You actually brought up some valid points regarding this book, and I've discussed Daito ryu history and recent historical developments with Obata Sensei since the publication of this book years ago. He agrees with alot of what is believed today - even with points that contradict the book. That is because the book was written and later translated using whatever information had been accumulated and obtained up until that period in time.

I believe the publisher chose the title of the book, and was primarily responsible for translating the text. Anyone that has tried to record an album, produce a movie, or write a book knows how frustrating it can be for the writer/creator to compromise with the "money man" over important points - especially when it is in a foreign language they are not fluent in. I don't mean to critisize this particular publisher, but Obata Sensei has since opted to produce materials independantly so that he may be in full control of the finished product.

As far as the technical content, I don't know that many Aikidoka would agree that they are "Aikido" techniques! Some are kumiuchi waza (battlefield techniques) and others are controls or throws of various types. Some of our Aikibujutsu "curriculum" actually include strategy and tactics.

Shioda Kancho, as I'm sure your aware, originally was taught "Aikibudo" by Ueshiba Sensei, and was issued at least one menjo or makimono (I forget which) that is titled Aikibudo which is said to be identical to the Hiden Mokuroku of Daito ryu. There is also a recent reprint of a book (I'm sure you've seen) that was originally titled "Aikijujutsu Ogi" in 1933, and is now called "Budo training in Aikido". It contains 166 waza, and if I remember correcty, is also supposed to be considered to be pretty straight Daito ryu. You probably have this book and would be in a better position to comment on this point.

Obata Sensei has told me that the uchi-deshi (he was one for approx 7 years) of the dojo were often taught alot of the older techniques since uchi-deshi were considered serious students and were there all the time.

As a side note, I've also noticed that the Yoshinkan tends to perform techniques in a very similar way as Kondo Sensei's mainline branch - though mostly different techniques - interestingly enough.

But anyway, our group does not claim to be Daito ryu, and the book likewise does not claim to teach Daito ryu techniques specifically. Obata Sensei does not have rank (to the best of my knowledge) in any Daito ryu branch. Our group is a research organization, and as we've discovered recently, Daito ryu has a unique definition of "aiki" that is not shared by Obata Sensei and many others. Not that Daito ryu's usage should be considered wrong, just that Daito ryu has their own semi-clear definition of aiki that does not match other arts.

I've never sat down and asked the origin of all the techniques in our system, though sometimes it does come up during training. I'm also not entirely sure who else and where else Obata Sensei may have picked up techniques, since he does not like to include "credentials" from people or groups that he was not directly a member of or ranked in.

Our group is more concerned with the preservation/application side of the "research" than we are the documenting historically the origins of techniques side. One look at the state of Aikido today will tell you why, and it would be far to messy an endeavour to try to document technical origins of waza anyway. I wouldn't wish that on anyone.

However, the majority of what we study is "hard Aikido", and we do tend to use Yoshinkan's kihon waza as a foundation. The advanced levels after shodan start to branch more deeply into Aikibujutsu type waza.

You might find it interesting that (in response to your seeming interpretation of our waza), in spite of Obata Sensei's large size, he is amazingly graceful in his application of techniques. Very powerful at times, but not through the use of muscle. He also has an "Aikiage" paired set that he has taught in the past, and can lock you up (on your toes) from hand grabs effortlessly. A little different
than say some of the Daito ryu groups, but effective and interesing.

Anyway, your entitled to your opinion and alot of it is not far off the mark, IMO.

BTW, I have no idea where the version of Yama Arashi comes from. I've asked him once, but I forget exactly what he said.

Everybody seems to have their own idea...

Regards,


[Edited by Nathan Scott on 07-11-2000 at 09:05 PM]

[Brently Keen]

Nathan,

Please feel free to call me Brently. I'm not surprised at all, I wouldn't have expected you to flame the hell out of me. I was anticipating that some others might try to rehash the old debates as soon as I said something about Daito-ryu aiki being different than aikido though.

I'm quite aware that "Samurai Aikijutsu" was published before very much was known about Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu. I think that Obata sensei deserves a lot of credit and respect for what he has accomplished in the martial arts. It doesn't surprise me either that Obata sensei concurs with more recent discoveries regarding Daito-ryu history. His translation of Yamamoto Kansuke's "Heiho Okugisho" is a favorite of mine that I like to quote often.

As far as I'm concerned though, the jury is still out on "oshikiuchi". I do not agree with the conclusions that some folks are drawing recently. Let's just say that I think there's more speculation going on than research.

Please remember that Daito-ryu as a tradition or system includes both jujutsu and aiki (or aikijujutsu), they are very different. Traditionally, when one begins to study the system of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu they are only taught jujutsu in the beginning. The Shoden level in Daito-ryu is jujutsu. The Daito-ryu hiden mokuroku (also sometimes called the shoden mokuroku) is made up of 118 "jujutsu" techniques.

Much of the confusion comes from the fact that Sokaku made a change in the name and started referring to his art as a whole as "Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu". At that point the mokuroku's he issued reflected this change, and "aiki" was added to the description of the art. However the content of the hiden mokuroku (118 jujutsu techniques) did not change. Shioda sensei and several other students of Ueshiba received this same mokuroku. People naturally mislabeled the jujutsu techniques as aikijujutsu techniques.

As for the book "Aikijujutsu Ogi" I believe the title was a result of this same misunderstanding (either that or a marketing ploy), because the vast majority of the techniques come straight from the Daito-ryu "jujutsu" curriculum, not the "aiki no jutsu" curriculum.

Likewise, I believe that Tokimune sensei and/or Kondo sensei have at different times both used the terms Aikijujutsu and Aikibudo perhaps interchangeably. When we watch Kondo sensei give a demonstration of the art of Daito-ryu Aikijujutsu he usually (until very recently) only demonstrated techniques from the Ikkajo series, the first basic jujutsu techniques in the hiden mokuroku. The vast majority of all the techniques Kondo sensei has demonstrated on publically available video tapes are all jujutsu techniques. Therefore any resemblance we see between Yoshinkan Aikido and Kondo sensei's demonstrations are primarily a resemblance to the "jujutsu" techniques of Daito-ryu, not the "aiki" techniques.

As you said, in Daito-ryu we have our own definition of aiki, and the distinctions between it and jujutsu are both clear and important. I have not seen or felt Obata sensei's "aikiage" technique so I cannot comment on that, but I will say that although Aikido's "kokyu-ho" and Kashima Shinryu's "reiki no ho" both resemble Daito-ryu's "aikiage" they are in fact quite different.

It would be interesting to hear Obata sensei's thoughts on the yama arashi technique and/or any recollections he might have of Shioda sensei's feelings about it.

Regards,

Brently Keen

[Nathan Scott]

Brently-san,

I agree with your post.

Personally, I think Daito ryu Aikijujutsu (Aikibudo) should simply be called Daito ryu, since it is technically not all "Aikijujutsu". But perhaps Takeda Sensei felt that once you understand aiki, that aiki will be used in all your techniques to varying degrees, and perhaps that the Aikijujutsu is the highest form of the Daito ryu.

I agree with your analysis of Aikijujutsu Ogi, the Hiden Mokuroku and Kondo Sensei's enbu's. I would also be the first to state that there is nothing in what Obata Sensei teaches in our style that the Daito ryu exponents would call "aiki" (by their definition). However, Aikidoka and Judoka would be among those quick to label many of the techniques as such.

Some koryu seem to use aiki when referring to the idea of harmonizing with the opponents movements, spirit, kiai, strength, speed, distance and/or breath etc. Application of this type of principle is considered high level when compared to techniques performed simply using combat tactics and strategy to gain an advantage. Without re-opening this debate again, I would submit that this is similar to how many other groups use the term as well. So in our case, aiki may be understood (in a different context) while performing a variety of techniques.

It would seem that Shioda Kancho was likely taught Jujutsu more than "aiki" from Ueshiba Sensei, but I've heard that Shioda Sensei had a continued interest in aiki and in Daito ryu even after opening the Yoshinkan.

Obata Sensei's aikiage is paired practice, as I mentioned, and involves 5 major movements for locking or manipulating the opponent's shoulder (into the center) through wrist grabs. There are also a variety of other "te-kagami" type joint locks. But I wouldn't say they feel "exactly" like Daito ryu. Most of our techniques are not conducted in the same context either.

For those not familiar, our organization is named "Aikido and Aikibujutsu Tanren Kenkyukai", or, Aiki Buken for short, which defines as a research group for the serious study of techniques ranging from the older Aikibujutsu to the modern variations of Aikido. The goal is to promote and preserve waza as integrated into our curriculum. However, the waza is necessarily chosen in such a way as to match the principles of movement already established in our style, to retain coherency.

Anyway, it's all pretty interesting. My time with Sensei is usually pretty.... focused, but if I perceive an opportunity to ask him about Yama arashi again, I'll see what I can find out.

Regards,


[Edited by Nathan Scott on 07-12-2000 at 12:41 PM]

[Brently Keen]

Nathan,

Well put, I pretty much agree with your whole summary. Especially about Sokaku Takeda's view that aiki was the essence or core of Daito-ryu, and that any Daito-ryu techniques performed at the highest level would likely include some aiki or elements of aiki.

You are correct that Shioda sensei had an ongoing interest in Daito-ryu and aiki. However, I believe some of the stories floating around on another BB are incorrect, and/or misleading. Out of respect for the parties involved, I'd rather not discuss the details of what I know in public though.

I think this has been a profitable discussion.

Regards,

Brently Keen

[Nathan Scott]

Although this is one of the oldest threads remaining on this forum, I thought it would be an appropriate place to document information on Saigo Shiro in particular, and secondarily on the legendary and controversial technique "yama-arashi".

The following excerpts are found on the Kodokan Judo english version web page, and were translated from Volume 1 (Te-waza) of the Japanese language 3-volume book set "Kodokan Judo - NAGE WAZA", written by Daigo Toshiro, 9th Dan Kodokan Judo. These books were published by Hon-no-Tomo-Sha in 1999 under the supervision of the Kodokan, and are sold on the Kodokan webpage (when available). Unfortunately, I'm not sure what the author used for reference material for this section, but it sounds pretty accurate all the same:

(Type 3) Shiro Saigo's (6th dan) Yamaarashi

"The technique of Yamaarashi can be found as Yamaotoshi in Sekiguchi-ryu (which is the old style of Jujitsu). Shiro Saigo studied and developed this old technique to use in Judo practice by himself and became very famous in the Judo world. The people said: 'There is no Yamaarashi before Saigo and after Saigo.' To understand the technique of Yamaarashi, it is important to know the technique of Saigo. In the book, Sugata Sanshiro, written by Tsuneo Tomita, published by Shunpo-do in 1950, the author describes Saigo's Yamaarashi. As you know, the author's father (Tsunejiro Tomita, 8th dan) was the first Judo student of Jigoro Kano and was known as one of the famous four. He left many articles about development of Judo techniques. The author of this book uses his fathers articles as follows:

'When Kodokan Judo fought against many other old Jujitsu schools, Shiro Saigo successfully used his unique Yamaarashi to defeat others and left many outstanding winning records. But, nowadays, nobody tries this unique technique and many black belts do not know the technique of Yamaarashi. Therefore, I explain the technique of Yamaarashi on behalf of the late Saigo. Before I explain this technique, I would like to tell you about Saigo's personality. He was born in Aizu, Japan. When he was a lad, he wanted to be an army general. He was a very small man. But, he had a giant heart and was a brave man. The technique of Yamaarashi is not depended upon powerful arms or body. It depends upon a strong mind, such as, the spirit of go for broke. According to the dynamics, the logic of Yamaarashi is based on the breaking of the opponent's balance within a short distance and attacking with full speed. It is the most dynamic and skillful of all other techniques. If we hold each other in right handed position (Saigo was left handed), Tori grabs Uke's right collar deeply with the right hand and grip Uke's right sleeve with the left hand to take an extremely right handed position. Tori moves his body up and down to pressure Uke backward. In response to Tori's controlling movement, Uke tries to push forward to regain his position. When Uke tries to come forward, Tori picks up Uke's body on his shoulder in full speed and sweeps Uke's right ankle like a Haraigoshi (a gust of wind). It can be considered a combination technique of Haraigoshi and Seoinage (the thumb of the hand grabbing the collar can be inside or outside of the collar). According to my memory, Saigo used both ways. This technique seems easy enough for anyone. However, in reality, it is a very difficult technique. Why did Saigo use this technique as his favorite technique? Saigo had two distinctive physical characteristics. First of all, he was a very short person. Therefore, he did not need to lower his hip to pick up an opponent who was pushing back. He saved time because he did not need to lower his body and did not need to worry about being squashed down. Another characteristic was that his toes were different from others. All the toes were pointed downward like a rake. Therefore, when he sweeps his legs like Haraigoshi against the opponent's ankle, he never missed the aimed spot. His toes always stuck to his opponent's leg like an octopus. Furthermore, when he executes his throwing techniques, he always aimed for only one shot and he never failed to throw the opponent. This technique is more effective for a short person rather than a tall person.'

According to the record, the height of Saigo was 153 cm and weight was 53 kg.

Shiro Saigo vs Taro Terushima

"In the exhibition matches between Kodokan Judo and all other Jujitsu School, sponsored by Tokyo Police Academy, Shiro Saigo's outstanding performance with Yamaarashi was spot lighted and greatly helped Kodokan Judo development. In the book (Yamaarashi and Saigo, published by Kodokan Bunka Kaikan, June 1931), author Tsunejiro Tomita described Saigo's match as follows:

'I would like to tell you and describe Saigo's Yamaarashi through out the matches which were fought against other schools. I think this is the best way to explainYamaarashi. On May 5, 1885, a match was held at Marunouchi Police Academy. Shiro fought against Taro Terushima, professor of Yoshinryu School (Hikokuro Totsuka's most favorite student). At this time, Terushima was well known in the Jujitsu world and, also, a famous fighter. On the other hand, Saigo was a young but unknown fighter from Kano Dojo. At that time, Kano Dojo, itself, was not recognized by the Jujitsu world. Saigo, usually fought in the left natural posture. After taking a bow to each other, Saigo posed in the left natural posture. Terushima was over confidence because Saigo was so small. Terushima raised and waved both hands in weird angles. Then, tried to grab Saigo in one snatch. But, Saigo had a strategy. Therefore, he did not give Terushima a chance to grab him. Terushima was too eager to grab Saigo's left sleeve. He tried one step forward in full speed. At this moment, Saigo turned his body to the right and pulled the middle of Terushima's left sleeve strongly. At the same time, Saigo's left hand grabbed Terushima's high left collar deeply like lightning (thumb under the collar). This was Saigo's most favorite and strategic grabbing technique. By picking up his left hand, Saigo tried to pull and push the opponent all around the contest area. Terushima was a good fighter, also. When Saigo tried to pick up Terushima, he went behind Saigo to hold his body to execute Uranage and Ogoshi. But, both failed. Saigo stood straight and pushed his left arm up very hard while still grabbing Terushima's left sleeve. When Terushima pushed back, Saigo picked up Terushima's body deeply by attaching his hip close underneath Terushima's abdomen like a torpedo. Then, he swept opponent's left leg as though trying to break it. Terushima flew over Saigo's head and lay on the mat like an honorable dead soldier. In this way, mountain storm (Yamaarashi) swept through this match.'

Shiro Saigo, 6th Dan, is in the Kodokan Hall of Fame for his great achievement.

Regards,

[Nathan Scott]

Following is a valuable reference to Saigo Shiro that was published in the "Kodokan New Japanese-English Dictionary of Judo", Kodokan Judo Institute, 2000:

"Saigo Shiro (1866-1922) - Third son of Shida Sadajiro, a samurai of the Aizu Domain, born in 1866 in Aizu Wakamatsu. In 1882 he moved to Tokyo and enrolled in the Kodokan. In 1884 he was adopted into the family of Saigo Tanomo, a former elder councillor of the Aizu Domain and took the name Hoshina Shiro [after his Tanomo, who had changed his name to Hoshina Chikanori]. In 1888 he reverted to the surname Saigo in order to resurrect the Saigo family line, which had died out with the passing of Saigo Tanomo. Exceptionally talented a martial artist, he was particularly well known for his powerful yama arashi ("mountain storm") technique. He earned the rank of shodan in judo in August 1883, nidan in September of the same year, jumped to yodan in August 1885, and godan in January 1889. However, he later left the Kodokan organization in May 1890 while Jigoro Kano was away travelling. He is also known to have been the model for the main character in Tomita Tsuneo's 1942 novel 'Sugata Sanshiro'. He died in Onomichi in Hiroshima prefecture in December 1922."

Saigo Shiro was also considered to be one of the "Four Heavenly Kings/Guardians" (Shitenno) of Judo, along with Yamashita Yoshitsugu, Yokoyama Sakujiro and Tomita Tsunejiro.

See these links as well for valuable photos and references:

Judo Greats - Past and Present

Shiro Saigo

Judo's Decisive Battle

History of JuJitsu, Part III: Bujutsu - The Meiji Period Police Competitions

Regards,

[Nathan Scott]

From Donn Draeger's "Classical Bujutsu and Budo", pg 139-140:

In 1877 Saigo Tanomo [Chikanori] sponsored Shida Shiro (b. 1868) and took him to Aizu to teach him oshikiuchi. After three years of arduous training, Shida moved to Tokyo to further his education. While studying at the Seijo Gakko, a training school for army personnel, Shida enrolled in the Inoue Dojo of the Tenjin Shin'yo-ryu in 1881. Two years later he caught the eye of Kano Jigoro, who was also a disciple of the Tenjin Shin'yo-ryu ... Shida's skill in hand-to-hand encounters convinced Kano that it would be a good idea to offer Shida an assistant instructorship at the Kodokan; and Shida accepted. Upon marrying Saigo Tanomo [Chikanori's] daughter in 1884, Shida became an adopted son of the Saigo family and therewith changed his name to Saigo Shiro ... Using the technique of yama-arashi (mountain storm), which is based on the principles and techniques of oshikiuchi, Saigo decisively defeated all comers and was instrumental in making both Kano and his Kodokan Judo famous.

Kano appointed Saigo Shiro to be director of the Kodokan while he was in Europe in 1888. This responsibility brought with it an increase in Saigo's remorse over conflicting loyalties. He owed much to his original sponsor and teacher, Saigo Tanomo [Chikanori], and to Kano, who had placed great trust in him. To resolve his problem, Saigo Shiro left Tokyo for Nagasaki in 1891 and set about making his own life in a way that would be unfettered by debts of loyalty to either Saigo or Kano. He abandoned the study of both oshikiuchi and judo. By 1899 he had beocme the vice-president of the Hinoda Newspaper Company in Kyushu, and for the next twenty years, until his death, he devoted himself entirely to the study of kyujutsu (the art of the bow), finally attaining the rank of hanshi (master teacher).

Saigo Shiro's precipitious departure made the elder Saigo look for another worthy disciple whom he could entrust with the complete teachings of oshikiuchi. While serving as a priest at the [Ryozen] Shrine, the elder Saigo selected Sokaku [Takeda] for this honor and began teaching him the once exclusive art of the Aizu warriors in 1898. Sokaku's zest for martial learning, coupled with his skill in classical swordsmanship, led him to rapid mastery of oshikiuchi. In the same year in which he began to study under Saigo, Sokaku was authorized to instruct people selected from th former samurai class in Aizu. Shortly before Saigo died, he encouraged Sokaku to spread the spirit and techniques of oshikiuchi on a wider basis. In compliance with his master's wish, Sokaku gradually modified the original oshikiuchi teachings. In response to an official request he traveled to Hokkaido in 1908 to instruct police units in hand-to-hand combat.

Sokaku regarded oshikiuchi in its modified form as jujutsu. To lend prestige to his teachings he appended the name Daito-ryu to them. Daito-ryu jujutsu, under Sokaku's leadership, remained a conservative but effective system of self-defense.

[judasith]

I recently wrote a 6-pages article on an italian Martial Arts newspaper regarding the famous Judo/Jujutsu tournament and Yama Arashi.

I do not really believe that Shiro Saigo knew anything in Daito-ryu more than the very first techniques. So I guess the best explanation is the simplest, Yama Arashi was a modified version of the one by the same name in Kodokan Judo.

To spice the article a little, we also showed a different theory, saying maybe Yama Arashi was Daito-ryu's Kuruma Daoshi, based on ease of application and the written description, which is a perfect fit.

But I do not believe Kano cheated in the tournament, they won because the most dangerous techniques were forbidden and the judo guys were very good on applying with great force and efficiency less-than-lethal techniques and nage. It was a tournament with different purposes than "real fight", I don't know if they met each other on the streets at night which of the two system would have won.

[Raff]

Much to my surprise dear Giacome, I must say that for once I disagree with your theory. First of all and before carrying it on, could you please send me your article in subject, I’m very interested.

To start with, Jigoro Kano is very often called Professor Kano, very rarely Sensei, Shihan and/or Kancho, how come the founder of the most famous Japanese martial art is called Professor rather than Sensei?

Pr Kano was not a fighter or a martial phenomenon, he certainly was a very dedicated student truly devoted to the preservation of the various Ryu-ha but as far as I know, he was never famous for defeating any worthy opponent. Even though Pr Kano is the founder of Kodokan Judo his skills are not nearly to be compared to those of Ueshiba, Sokaku Takeda or Mas Oyama.

If we look very carefully at Kano’s martial background, we find out that he had studied Tenjin Shiny’o Ryû and Kito-Ryû for a very short period of time, his Senseis being actually quite old (actually at least two of them soon passed away forcing the young Jigoro Kano to seek out a new teacher), in reality, Kano hardly studied for 4 years before founding the Kodokan, and, there is another aspect often underrated, the Dojo Kano trained in had indeed very few students, we can easily say that Koryu at that time were simply passing out.

The rest is history, the first student to sign the enrollement book was one of the famous Shitenno: Tsunejiro Tomita whose son is the author of Sugata Sanshiro, I think that Saigo was the 8th or 9th student to join the Kodokan, it is worth mentioning that Kano had previously met Saigo at the Tenjin Shiny’o Ryû Dojo.

It is an indisputable fact that Saigo was already a skilled martial artist far superior to Kano when he entered the Kodokan, he was the first one to defeat and convert!!! The first challengers who stepped by the Kodokan, one of those who were defeated by Saigo is nobody less that Sakujiro Yokoyama an exponent of another Ryû (I can’t remember the name at the moment) know as the Demon, I guess that somebody bearing such a nickname must have been a feared fighter, Yokoyama was also Kyuzo Mifune Teacher. After losing to Saigo, Yokoyama joined the Kodokan becoming one of the Shitenno.

So, I guess that if Kano did not cheat, he was at least clever enough to get the best fighters of the time to defend the Kodokan. It certainly did help a lot even if it should not downplay Kano’s pedagogy and training methods.

I would like to add a last word about the famous Police Department Tournament, the Koryu were fading, the Pax Tokugawa was certainly bearing a great responsibility in that loss of both combative spirit and skills. The Kodokan won because they were far better prepared than the exponent of the other schools and also because the Koryu believed that they would easily despatch the Kodokan players.

Some scholars are now expressing a brand new theory about Yama Arashi: Some argue that it could be a description of Saigo’s fighting style, I tend to support that theory.