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O'Neill
18th January 2003, 16:36
Anyone have info on this style of koryu jujutsu? A description of the curriculum would be nice as well as some history. Thank you.

Steve Delaney
18th January 2003, 18:17
Ryushin Katchu ryu jujutsu is basically an offshoot of Tenjin Shinyo ryu jujutsu. It even states the founder of the tradition to be Iso Mataemon (Who also happens to be the founder of Tenjin Shinyo ryu). Ryushi Katchu ryu was founded in the mid-ninteenth century. According to what I have been told by Kubota sensei, it was founded in Tokyo, but then moved to Hokkaido some time in the late Edo/Early Meiji period.The ryuha is still an active member of the Nihon Kobudo Shinkokai & Kyokai and participates in several of the monbusho (National board of education) enbutaikai each year.

Ryushin Katchu Ryu's jujutsu methods are not surprisingly,very similar to Tenjin Shinyo ryu's jujutsu techniques (with minor differences in reiho and the way in which some kata are executed). Some kata are almost identical to Tenjin Shinyo ryu kata and some are variations of kata with various modifications.

Hope this helps.

Hissho
20th January 2003, 00:06
You gotta love their kata where they tomoe-nage, roll over into a mount, do some choke attempts, and then grab the extended arm and drop back into juji-gatame.

Steve Delaney
20th January 2003, 00:13
Yeah, that's a variation of shodan tachiai ryou munadori with some of the techniques from the randori added.

Steve Delaney
20th January 2003, 01:56
Russ,

In Ryushin Katchu Ryu, this is actually a formal kata. However the origins of the kata are from TSR jujutsu techniques. One source being the shodan tachiai kata and the other being the randori techniques.

O'Neill
20th January 2003, 15:54
Sounds like there is alot of flow to their kata. Very interesting thanks- do they teach weapons?

Steve Delaney
20th January 2003, 16:22
Erin,

They don't train in weapons per se, but they do however train against weapon weilding enemies in the kata. Usually the enemy either has a katana or a kodachi. There is also a defence against a enemy trying to attack using an iai nukitsuke type attack.

There are no weapon against weapon techniques in this system that I have been told of.

Ree
20th January 2003, 16:38
Hi Steve

How are you and happy new year.
How about Nukemi Metsuke does this exist in the Kata?

Kind regards
Lee Masters

Steve Delaney
21st January 2003, 10:34
Lee,

Happy new year to you too. I hope you had a good time.

Re: Ryushin Katchu Ryu Jujutsu

As far as I know, they don't have Nukimi Metsuke in their syllabus, but they do have Kojiri gaeshi and it's a dead ringer for our one with the exeption that they don't kick, they just immediately go into katame waza.

Ree
21st January 2003, 16:33
Steve

Thanks.Is that you in this months Hiden magazine?

Cheers
Lee

Steve Delaney
22nd January 2003, 02:17
Lee,

That is me being uke for one of the new guys at the meiji jingu embutaikai last November. That time was a bit weird; I had to do ten kata in succession. Five as uke for shodan tachi ai and five as tori for chuden tachiai. I have since shaved off the beard & moustache by the way :D

Selling & distributing the Embukai's programmes was a bit of a chore. Not to mention doling out the sake for all of the participants at the end of demonstration party. :toast: :beer:

Steve Delaney
24th January 2003, 04:35
Mr. James Russel Ebert,

You are cordially invited to SOD OFF! :D

Steve Delaney
24th January 2003, 06:13
This was a serious thread before you decided to hijack it. What's the matter not enough graphs to draw and paperwork to do??

Steve Delaney
26th January 2003, 02:25
How do the atemi in the kata of Ryushin Katchu ryu vary from those in Tenjin Shinyo Ryu? Even though the currucla may be different, do they have any "striking" similarities in terms of landing a blow? In terms of nage, are the strikes in the same place?


Russ,

From what I have seen of Ryushin katchu ryu at various enbu, they aren't big into striking. They seem to have a few smattered here and there. They have a similar striking methodology to TSR, but in a lesser amount. However, I shouldn't be really comparing Koryu, even if they are from the same Ryuso.


Also, I would like to ask about the different branches of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu in existent around Japan. On a recent video I have seen of one of the branches, they end some of the kata with a swift kick to the ribs before zanshin...what do you make of that

There are only two branches of TSR left in Japan.(There were three; Tobari Kazu's branch in Osaka, but she passed away a few years ago.) There is a branch in Saitama, headed by an individual that claims to have Menkyo Kaiden and then there is a branch in Tokyo, from the Yagi Torajiro line of Tenjin Shinyo ryu, which is headed by Kubota Toshihiro sensei.

As for the kicks to the ribs, it depends on the level of the kata. I only know of one kata off the top of my head which Kubota Sensei told me about, and that's all I know of. It could also be a variation in the teaching tradition. I know that the branch in Saitama have different reiho from the way things are done in the Tenyokai. I'll have to see the tape to make sure (Hint hint ;) )


Check your saucepan for bunnies :saw:

Ree
26th January 2003, 18:37
Steve
Are there any available photo's/pictures of these previous masters?

The kata you refer to is that from the Gokui,but the kick is not to the ribs?

cheers
Lee :toast: :beer:

Steve Delaney
27th January 2003, 04:53
The kata you refer to is that from the Gokui,but the kick is not to the ribs?

Lee, yes, last year, Sensei demonstrated Zanshin metsuke on me in the dojo and the kick definately wasn't to the ribs.

However, according to Russ (From what I understood), this just wasn't one kata. It was quite a few where the Tori would give the Uke a kick before withdrawing into Ichimonji no kamae.

Have you seen any other kata in the the Gokui like that?

Ree
27th January 2003, 08:45
Steve

Yes,I have both seen and felt these from both Kubota Sensei and my father.

Russ(I hope you don't mind me calling you that?)
Where these kata (Ryushin Katsuchu Ryu) of the Okuden?

Kind regards
Lee Masters

Steve Delaney
27th January 2003, 09:31
Lee,


By Russ Ebert
I would like to ask about the different branches of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu in existent around Japan. On a recent video I have seen of one of the branches, they end some of the kata with a swift kick to the ribs before zanshin


Russ wasn't talking about Ryushin Katchu Ryu, he was talking about a different branch of our ryuha, Tenjin Shinyo Ryu that he saw on a video tape. The thread has kind of drifted a bit to TSR instead of RSKR.

Ree
27th January 2003, 14:15
Steve

I think I've had to much Shime waza Der!

Cheers
Lee Masters

George Kohler
28th January 2003, 02:07
Originally posted by Mekugi
Little confusion, there is a tape I have been telling Steve about that has a demonstration by a branch of TSR.

I believe the person on the video is Shibata Koichi
This branch is from Miyamoto Hanzo line.

Miyamoto taught Aimiya Kazusaburo
Aimiya taught Shibata Koichi.

Steve Delaney
28th January 2003, 03:38
Lee,

You aren't the only one who has had too much shime waza. I was KO'ed four times last year with Sode Guruma jime. :P

Russ,

Is "Oi Kappa!" acceptable? :D I'm wondering about that video. Was it filmed in Kanto or Kansai?

George Kohler
28th January 2003, 03:53
Originally posted by Mekugi
George wrote:


Hmm...I know i have his name listed on the taikai program copy I have, I can't read it though :) and the volume is shoddy on the tape.

-Russ

Hi Russ,

If it is the video we talked about, then the person demonstrating was Shibata Koichi. He is also a practioner of Asayama Ichiden ryu taijutsu and Shindo Tenshin ryu kenpo (Tenshin ko ryu).

George Kohler
28th January 2003, 04:54
Originally posted by Mekugi
BTW...the sword that fell out...it was the kodachi coming loose- it fell when his long pigsticker was being put back in place. Actually handled very well, they never broke zanshin.

Yep, that's the one.

Ree
28th January 2003, 08:55
Russ
That would be excellent.I've only seen pictures of Shibata Koichi so video of his waza would be interesting.

Does anyone know what page is Ryushin Katsuchu Ryu on in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten?I cannot find it.

Steve,

Sode Guruma Ah yes.:D

Ok I feel abit with it now.The kata with the kick in the ribs was it a noticable Gokui kata?

kind regards
Lee Masters

tommysella
28th January 2003, 10:38
Lee,

In the daito-ryu demonstration tape, where Kubota does a demonstration he does a kick to the backribs in the Gokui (tachiai) technique where ukemi attacks with a odachi and torimi defend with a kodachi. In the end of the technique before the hira no kamae he kicks ukemi in the back...I think it was this technique at least (will check at home)...

Regards,
Tommy

Ree
28th January 2003, 16:42
Tommy
I was refering to the difference in the kata of the different branches of Tenjin Shinyo Ryu.

Kind regards
Lee Masters

Steve Delaney
29th January 2003, 03:56
Tommy,


In the daito-ryu demonstration tape, where Kubota does a demonstration he does a kick to the backribs in the Gokui (tachiai) technique where ukemi attacks with a odachi and torimi defend with a kodachi. In the end of the technique before the hira no kamae he kicks ukemi in the back...I think it was this technique at least (will check at home)...

Kubota Sensei is a friend of Kondo Katsuyuki Sensei, but he isn't a member of Daito Ryu. Did you mean that he demonstrated Tenjin Shinyo Ryu at a Daito Ryu Enbutaikai?

The description of the kata you described was quite similer to the one that Lee and I was talking about earlier.

tommysella
29th January 2003, 05:11
Yes Steve,
It was a demonstration. If I'm not totaly wrong...I think Lee has this tape aswell...

Regards,
Tommy

Ree
29th January 2003, 07:12
Tommy
I have got the tape of that Daito Ryu Enbutaikai.

Regards
Lee

Steve Delaney
30th January 2003, 06:07
Lee,

"Does anyone know what page is Ryushin Katsuchu Ryu on in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten? I cannot find it."

I'll have a flick through tonight. I'm sure that I have seen it in there before.


"Sode Guruma Ah yes. "

Yes, that old favourite. However, It does play havoc with men's lovelives, especially when you come home with red marks across your neck :D

Sigh, the paranoia of women at times :rolleyes: I didn't hear the end of that one for at least a month.

"Ok I feel abit with it now.The kata with the kick in the ribs was it a noticable Gokui kata?"

Well when Sensei did it to me, it definately wasn't to the ribs and we had a short discussion why afterwards. BTW, just a bit of trivia; did you notice that sensei omitted the kick in the Hiden magazine article? There was a reason why.

Ree
30th January 2003, 10:39
Steve,
That will be good if you could find the page number in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten;)

You have the same problem with the ladies,we have lots of suspicous wives in the Tenyokai U.K.

I'm fully aware of the area that is kicked and I don't want go into details on the net,but I was wondering whether the kick is the same in the Shibata lineage?

Kind regards

Lee Masters

P.S.
Your last e-mail was blank?

Steve Delaney
30th January 2003, 11:17
Lee,


That will be good if you could find the page number in the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten

No worries.


You have the same problem with the ladies,we have lots of suspicous wives in the Tenyokai U.K.

Ah so it isn't just me. :p


I'm fully aware of the area that is kicked and I don't want go into details on the net,but I was wondering whether the kick is the same in the Shibata lineage?

Yeah I haven't been going into details on that either. Talking about it, but not saying where it is, since you know the location of this blissful target already. ;)


Your last e-mail was blank?

Was it? Hmmm very strange. OK not to worry I'll rewrite it. :)

Ree
30th January 2003, 12:16
Steve,

I'll look forward to hear from you.

Cheers

Lee Masters :D

Steve Delaney
1st February 2003, 08:07
Lee,

The entry for Ryushin Katchu ryu is on page 914 of the Bugei Ryuha Daijiten. There are two entries.

Here is the kanji for the ryuha - ?S?bh

Ree
3rd February 2003, 12:02
Steve,

Thanks for that;)
Not much info in there.

Cheers

Lee Masters