View Full Version : always something, what type of student are you anyway..?

18th February 2003, 22:07
Do you consider yourself:

Student of History?
Student of Techniqes?
Student training to be a Martial Arts Champion?
Student of Fitness?
Student of Philosophy?
Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation?
Student to be a better Teacher?
Student of Self-Perfection?
Student of Self-Discovery?
Student of Spirituality?

If you had to pick THREE which would they be?

Just something to understand what others are thinking... here on E-Budo.

kamiyama, ralph severe

william northcote
18th February 2003, 22:49
For my three it would be in this order:

Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation
Student of Self-Discovery
Student of Spirituality

I would class the first as a student but the other two I am just taking it as self discovery and refinement within myself.

Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation How far can you go to be ready is one question that springs to mind. Can you go to a point then turn round and say "I can fight, bring it on world..."
Just a thought.

18th February 2003, 23:20
I would have to say 'Self Discovery', as in, 'trying to Discover for my Self just how far I can go in coming to some sort of grips with the teachings and movement of this Hatsumi person'.

The other two could be chosen at random because only that first one really means anything to me at this point in time. Beyond that, if I get fit, fine. If I get a History lesson, great. If I tap out the entire Gracie clan at once at UFC and get my snarling mug on the cover of every sports rag in the known universe, cool. If my brain snaps and I suddenly realize with every fibre of my being that 'all is one' and find that I can now see people's entire future and and past life history by simply glancing at their palm or whiffing one of their farts or whatever, neat. And so on down the list.

19th February 2003, 01:28
Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation?
Student of Self-Discovery?
Student to be a better Teacher?

19th February 2003, 04:23
1) Student of Self-Discovery
2) Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation (and of others around me -- warrior creed from http://www.livingvalues.com)
3) Student of Philosophy
4) Student of the brew :beer:

Don Roley
19th February 2003, 08:35
How about "none of the above"?

I take Bujinkan classes in order to live a long, fruitfull life with my family and to die in bed- either of old age, or in the arms of a nympomaniac. (Preferably both.)

I do not train for trophies, money or the ability to brag to others. I have little interest in seeing my enemies before me and hear the wailing of their woman and children. I train to come home at night, pet my dog, play with my kid and make love to my wife. Everything else, ego, money, fame, etc is not even a factor.

I will walk away from a fight and not feel shamed. Hell, I 'll run like a rabbit if I get the chance. As long as I can spend time with my family, I do not care what you think of my manhood. But threaten my family and you will find that I am ready to fight, to kill even. Like a mother tiger I do not want you to come closer towards my young, but step over that line and threaten my child or my wife and there will be no hesitation, no mercy from me. I will kill you before you get a chance to harm them. Whether I survive or not is not as important as making sure you never get the chance to hurt them. I will go all out and damn the consequences to me later.

It may sound simple and pale besides those that make a name for themselves, but the joy I feel while I hold my wife and listen to the happy laughter of our child is not something I would trade for anything in this world. I know some people who say that everythign else in their life comes second to their budo. I even know some who claim to have made sacrifices in their maritial life and foregone children in their search for martial arts achievement. I consider them idiots. All I want out of training is to lead a happy, productive life and protect that which I hold dear.

But how do I go about that goal?

I study an art that involves violence in it because I need to protect myself from violence and that must always be a factor in training. But I do not look for violence. I put more importance in being able to recognize danger and avoid it than I do in getting into battles and winning. Many people pay lip service to self defense and avoiding battles, but their egos will not let them walk, or run, away from a battle they do not have to face. I have seen all to many halls seemingly devoted to "self defense" where they only deal with getting into a ring and beating someone up. Thats not what I want.

I would not say that my primary emphisis in taking an art with punches and kicks involves improving myself emotional, spiritually or philisophically. But I have seen situations where someone should have walked away from a oncoming fight, but because of some internal situation they could not. On the other hand, I know a guy who responded to a really vicious verbal attack on him with the comment, "Are you trying to insult me, because I have been called worse by people related to me." And he then laughted and walked away from the potential fight while the other guy was trying to process the information. He did not do that because he felt so empty inside he had to prove his manliness in the eyes of others. If you do not feel secure enough in yourself to walk away from insults or attacks on your manhood, you probably will need to learn how to fight.

And if I wanted to get healthy I would go to my local gym instead of the dojo. But at the same time, I am not willing to do things to improve my chances at fighting at the expense of my health down the road. I eat right, keep thin and don't do stupid things health wise. But I would do that even if I were not training in the Bujinkan. I can not imagine people who claim to train in martial arts in order to defend themselves from attack only to do things that may kill them in a few years.

And I do not study Bujinkan for the history, but at the same time I realize the wisdom of the saying that a fool learns from his mistakes, while a wiser man learns from other people's mistakes. There are lessons that I can learn that others have paid in blood to learn. And I am not just talking about the Bujinkan. I have trained under stylists and martial artists from other arts who have buried friends, been sent to emergency wards and faced legal troubles. I listen, learn and try to avoid getting into the same situation they did. When I research history, I care little for lineage lists, but rather for the lessons that help me to understand what we do. The art we study evolved in a certain enviroment. Other arts evolved in other sitautions. Understanding why the old katas are the way they are may sound like history buff stuff to some, but I am only interested in learning how to take the principles of the art and applying them to new situations I may face.

So which one is most important? The part that lets me die in bed. Which one is that? Well.............

(Sorry.. I'm a little tipsy after going out with some of my co-workers and I tend to go on in these cases.)

19th February 2003, 08:39
1.Student of Self-Perfection
2.Student of Combat Readiness -- Self- Preservation
3.Student of Fitness

Number 3 changes from time to time. Right now I feel I'm studying Taijutsu on a very secular level. Hopefully as I progress in MAs I'll _truly_ find the spiritual side to it.


19th February 2003, 14:14
I prefer to consider myself as a student of Life.

Glenn Marquay

19th February 2003, 18:25
Having turned twenty-two years old last Tuesday, I was thinking some of the things on this thread. I began in ninjutsu as a fifteen year old kid and seven years have helped me grow. And the three things that stand out the most are listed by Mr. Severe.

Student of Spirituality- As a Christian, I finally found a way to preserve my own morals and live them among people who felt and believed similar to myself. Having tolerance, love, and compassion were lessons taught to me daily. The most important thing was having passion for yourself and your art. This brings out your spirit when training. And if you watch, you can see those students who are "lifers" and only there for a season through the amount of passion and spirit they place in their training.

Student of Self-Discovery- After being told repeatedly that I "couldn't do this," "or you're too fat..." I found myself able to do things I never knew I could before. Rolling, running, moving, and my reflexes all became better due to pushing myself and learning and discovering what my limits were at those particular times. I learned its what's in your heart that allows you to either proceed, or hold you down. Not what those other people say.

Student of Self-Preservation- I was able to finally walk away from a fight and know I was a better person, because I knew in my heart if it came to blows I could protect myself and other, as well as the attacker from themself. I have never been able to stomach the pain of others, or cause it. I feel that self-preservation is an important part, as well as being able to stay your hand in a situation. I agree with Mr. Roley. If I was given the chance I would run as well. I have a wife and child on the way in July. I don't want my family to be without me.

But if it comes down to it I would defend them, any way I knew how.

I guess for me that as a martial artist I have been opened up to the things of the world many never get to see. And, being as young as I was when I started, was able to learn a lot of life's lessons about people and myself early on and grow up more mature. I was 17 years old when I met Dr. Hatsumi. And though it may not seem like something major to some people, it was a great thing for me, and at the time I was so excited. It was a fond memory I possess of my younger days. I have met some and trained with extraordinary people, and I know many of you have as well.

I feel that these three things are for me the most important things I can live up to as a martial artist. Kamiyama, I salute you on this thread. This truly is a good topic. Thanks all for listening and God Bless.

In Christ,
Randall Engle
Member, Fudoshin Dojo

p.s.---Thanks for letting me ramble. I do appreciate it. Take care all.:D

Don Roley
19th February 2003, 21:56
Originally posted by Shojin
Don do you have to do bujinkan training to pet the Dog and love the wife and kids? I don't get it...

Ok, let me try writing while sober...

I train so that if I am attacked, I can come home to see me family instead of being taken to the hospital or worse. But I do not want to say I do things to learn how to fight, because a good part of what I do involves learning to avoid the fight in the first place and thus get home to my family.

It is kind of a sore point with me to see people teaching an art that they say is for "self defnese" and yet all they learn how to do is beat someone up. Not only do they not learn ways of avoiding fights, some of the stuff they do will get them sent to prison after they beat their attacker up- which goes against my purpose of getting home to see the family.

Don Roley
20th February 2003, 07:17
Originally posted by Shojin

I posit that it is not the technique, but the moral underpinning that determines if we go to Jail. I see no reason to train in techniques that won't work so I can stay out of jail, I know I personally teach very dangerous techniques as I feel VERY teachnique in Takamatsu den is VERY dangerous, I have yet to see hatsumi sensei teach something that wasnot very dangerous to the attacker.

I think that is the key point that needs to be made. Some ofthe techniques are similar, but the spirit and the stringing together of them are where they really become something ugly and more oriented towards getting into a macho martial arts fantasy than getting your tender pink behind home to see your family.

Take a look at this link. (http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/traditionalMA.htm) to kind of see where I am coming from. There was a guy in my first teacher's class that had done MA for years. He did JKD and others in the states, ended up in Thailand and even studied Katori Shinto ryu before returing to the states and starting in the Bujinkan. We used to hang out a lot and talk about things relating to Japan. He once told me that he was in love with Bujinkan because, "this was the first art that told me it was ok to run away. If I had learned that when I first started training I could have saved my self a lot of stompings."

Even in the Bujinkan, there are a lot of people that pay no attention what so ever to anything other than getting into a ring and beating people up. Their ability to do this does gain them students as well as beef up their egos. But how does this address my main point of getting home to see my family?

Read the section on the 27 ninjas with Uzis. It is funny, but somehow tragic in just how true it is. Some ofthe techniques this guy shows are the most deadly I have seen, but he talks a hell a lot more about avoiding trouble than making yourself into an unbeatable street fighter.

20th February 2003, 14:41
Preservation, Perfection, and Discovery

...the order depends on the day.

23rd February 2003, 06:18
Student of History?
Student of Techniqes?
Student training to be a Martial Arts Champion?
Student of Fitness?
Student of Philosophy?
Student of Combat Readiness - Self-preservation?
Student to be a better Teacher?
Student of Self-Perfection?
Student of Self-Discovery?
Student of Spirituality?

I agree with many of you that this is a very hard choice because we see ourselves training in a very complex mode of skills. I believe this is the only method to not be bord, find the correct feeling of the day, get results, etc..

I personality cannot answer this question myself and this is why I asked it here to see what others would say.

I respect many of the wonderful poster's here on E-budo regardless if we don't see eye to eye all the time.

This gives me a better view into what you are saying when you are saying it.

kamiyama, ralph severe

The Tengu
24th February 2003, 16:09
I've been thinking about this question for about a week now, and what I realized is that a lot of those goals tie together, or depend upon each one another to exist in the context of martial arts.

So my list began something like:

List 1

Lately I've been doing a lot of introspection into why I study ninpo and taijutsu, and I realized that all of the above are basically dependent upon fighting skills in the context of martial arts. And as I have been trying to work on my list, I found that perhaps I'm doing things backwards as far as what I am concentrating on. When I realized what I was doing, I felt sort of foolish, immature, and embarrassed.

Instead of working on List 1, I've decided to forget about those three altogether and concentrate on this list instead:

List 2
1)Combat Readiness - Self-preservation

I feel that the List 1 will develop on its own if List 1 is forgotten and List 2 is studied more in depth.

I feel that this is what the meaning of "shikin haramitsu daikomyo" is for me, and that is how I'm approaching my training now.