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View Full Version : let them create their own kata?!?



Rogier
27th June 2003, 07:50
As tonight is the last friday night lesson before the summer holidays start I was thinking of showing the class some things (attack, block, punch, throws, joint locks etc. etc. etc.).

Team the people up in pairs and give 'm half an hour to come with a short kata like a karate kata.

anyone have experience with this??

Kevin73
28th June 2003, 05:07
I've done this before and had them experiment and have them try to get a "theme" for their kata or an overall concept/strategy.

I mainly use it to point out how in depth forms/kata can be and how much is really in them.

TehPeoplePesron
28th June 2003, 17:39
I have done this before. I liked the results. It had the people actually think about what they were doing. It allows the people to focus on the techniques and how they work as opposed to going through the motions

Rogier
30th June 2003, 12:31
well I tried it and it worked as I hoped. As described above people started to really think about what they were doing. Everyone had fun and there were some nice results... This is one to keep in mind..

Sochin
30th June 2003, 16:46
If you want it to be more of a fun thing, have the lowest belt do any move, the next lowest must remember it, do it, then add a move. By the time it gets to the advanced belts, it's 10-20 moves long and everyone has it memorized....ha!

Lots of cheering and jeering help the brown belts remember better too!!

bruceb
5th July 2003, 21:44
Probably the best way to create their own kata is to simulate an attack, have three or four people call out what to do next after each technique, and then show how the three or four techniques could be practiced without losing their intergrity, or be translated from the kata you create back into movement and usage without losing its integrity.

A whole lot of short-hand notes, or preservation of angle, direction, and technique with a visual picture.

It not only sounds like children singing a song with each child doing a different verse, but the flexing of the mental muscles for memorizing the collection of movements, and then creating a notation method that is like learning another language ... the fact is... it is another language.

chizikunbo
16th July 2003, 15:20
A kata contains the bunkai of the style(the self defense tecniques) It took the masters of okinawa(bushi)A life time to create there kata, and the practicioner a life time to interpret the kata to understand it and be able to use the bunkai for self defense. You should not be able to develope a kata until you have attained a menkyo kaiden or complete mastery of a style(Taika) Time should be spent analyzing kata that are already there (the classical kata). I wish this was of any importance to our western minds.:(

CEB
16th July 2003, 15:54
Interviewer : George why do you do so many cover tunes and not more original material?

George Thorogood : Because Chuck Berry already wrote all the good songs.

hector gomez
18th July 2003, 16:47
I wouldn't pay a cent for a concert/artist that is going to be playing cover tunes instead of original tunes.:cool:


Unless,it is Ed's music in hokeytonkheaven and I am having a cold one.



Hector Gomez:toast:

Rogier
21st July 2003, 14:47
Originally posted by chizikunbo
A kata contains the bunkai of the style(the self defense tecniques) It took the masters of okinawa(bushi)A life time to create there kata, and the practicioner a life time to interpret the kata to understand it and be able to use the bunkai for self defense. Time should be spent analyzing kata that are already there (the classical kata). I wish this was of any importance to our western minds.:(

my friend.. if you teach your students the same old stuff over and over again without ever doing anything else/fun, then how are they supposed to enjoy their training?


You should not be able to develope a kata until you have attained a menkyo kaiden or complete mastery of a style(Taika)

were you actually around when they created the kata? If not then how do you know how long they took to create their kata? Maybe they thought them up during lunch and decided it would be cool to keep it in their system.

For some reason you seem to think that having people create their own kata is a bad thing? Why? It helps them to really think about the techniques they are doing and it is not like these quickly made kata are actually going to be practiced for a long time.

It is great that the "mysterious masters" of Okinawa created kata that are still around today, however they were not supermen who had the sole right to create kata and think about the martial art they were practicing.

and pardon me for saying but if you are not able to come up with a kata before reaching menkyo kaiden..... than you should join a knitting club... Kata are not that mysterious, they are a series of prearranged moves, not a collection of secret death moves

zac
28th July 2003, 22:13
You could try a "fill in the blank" method of Kata. That is - teach a two person kata your students don't know (invent one if you like), remove (or purposefully do not compose) the final steps and allow your students to innovate 'proper' responses. While you may learn something yourself, the emphasis is on teaching your students to innovate on a situation-to-situation basis.

I often refer to any style or individual techniques I teach as a 'language'. Once the students have learned enough of the 'language' to be considered competent, I then need to force them to learn proper 'grammar'. I find that induced-stress and pass/fail exercises work best to help them to utilize the forms they know - usually sparring, but this does have limited to its use. Some student will need the occasion to be able to analyze what they are doing while they are doing it - competence first - speed later, right?

My opinion, and it is only that, is that far too few teachers really know how to impart proper thinking, state of mind, or philosophy (what ever you wish to call it) to their students. It isnít like the old days, where you would have a student for half their lifetime. Teaching your students 'vocabulary' is easy, teaching them to think in terms of that 'language' is difficult enough in a few years, and teaching them to 'speak' without thinking about it, is quite another. By forcing your students to become innovative, you show them another facet of martial arts - seeing both sides of the fence at the same time.

I find it most useful and recomend the exercise highly, if done well.

bruceb
30th July 2003, 17:05
Sometimes I think people who teach kata are mimes imitating mimes who imitate mimes, Ya know?

Sometimes the demonstrations are imitated so many times the actual meaning is lost?

There is no reason why we can't use this system of kata to create visual notes. What did you think kata was anyway?



Let them create their own kata so the students will understand how and why the depth of kata is so much more than imitating the movements of their teachers.

Rogier
30th July 2003, 17:46
Bruce... this is one those times that I totally agree with you.

It is horrible to see people perform a kata and seeing that they have no idea what they're actually doing..

bgb
30th July 2003, 20:55
It is horrible to see people perform a kata and seeing that they have no idea what they're actually doing..

AhÖand therein lies another teachable moment.

If you have students (older children or very young adult) who seem to just be going though the motion on a one person kata, team them up and have them figure out how to make it an two (or more) person kata.

IE The kata has a block. Fine. What kind of attack would generate that type of block. The kata has a strike. Fine. Demonstrate where and how your target would be standing/moving to make such a strike effective. Yes, Iím sure you went though all this when you were teaching them the kata in the first place, but were they listening? Let the groups demonstrate to the class as a whole and discuss the ones that make sense.

Barb Bloom