View Full Version : Daito-ryu and Sumo

24th November 2003, 05:36
Hello all,

I asked these questions over at Aikido Journal, but thought I might get a different crowd over here. I'd love to hear what people think.

The first question I have is about Sokaku's father Sokichi. Sokichi was an Ozeki ranked sumotori. Does anyone know his sumo name? It would seem a wrestler of that standing would have been popular. I only wonder because it is possible that there are ukiyo-e of Sokichi. It was very common to make ukiyo-e of wrestlers, and I am sure such a high ranked wrestler would have had a print of his own. I think it would be very interesting to have a picture of him as a part of Daito-ryu history.

Second does anyone have any opinion about cross training in sumo? I have considered learning some sumo. It is clear that some of the best DR masters (Sokaku, Ueshiba, Hisa) practiced sumo. Mr. Amdur mentioned some time ago, that he thought DR and aikido were similar to sumo. Based on everything we know about DR history it would make sense.

Finally in sumo there is an exercise called shikko. Does this share the same kanji as the knee walking shikko?

I'm sure I'll have more questions, but lets see if this can start any thing.


24th November 2003, 10:11
Hi, Chris,
Have you asked in the Sumo Forum? Perhaps you hadn't noticed yet, but there is a forum now for sumo on E-budo.

Didn't many (most) from the traditional schools do sumo as a sport? I don't think of it as cross-training, as it doesn't really have the same goals, particularly martial ones, as most budo. OTOH, there are some good basics which may help in one's chosen style of budo. Some judoka have taken up sumo, particularly the bigger ones, though the amatuer associations have weight classes and women now participate.

Look through the jump links and it will take you to the forum. Perhaps the moderator there has more information for you.

I really just wanted to mention the forum, but I've seen photos of many teachers of traditional budo dressed for sumo. It is usually considered to be something where one can let one's hair down and relax and have a bit of fun.

There is one rikishi out of New Jersey, Manny Yarbrough, who says he originally took up sumo to help him with his judo. While Manny doesn't win many judo contests, he certainly fits the term "Rikishi." He is 6'11" and weighs over 600 lb.:eek:

Still want to consider "cross-smashing" with the likes of Yarbrough? Instant weight loss if he takes you down then decides you need to be convinced of his strengh and his strengths. No weaknesses here, I'd say.


24th November 2003, 10:18
BTW: If anyone is looking for the sumo sub-forum, it is under the heading of Gendai Budo.


Nathan Scott
24th November 2003, 22:46
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Brian Griffin
25th November 2003, 00:04
Originally posted by Nathan Scott
My Judo jiten says that shikko knee walking is also used in Judo's Katame-no-kata, which is interesting. The shikko you see in Katame no Kata doesn't look very much like the Aikido practice of that name.
In the kata, we slide around on our left knee while the right knee stays up the whole time. The kneeling posture is called Taka Kyoshi.

25th November 2003, 01:23
This may have only been a prefecturial rank. If you read "Aikido Journal" (Sokaku Takenda Biography (http://www.aikidojournal.com/new/article.asp?ArticleID=234)) they mention a little about it yet still vague. Tokimune Takeda wrote this, Brian Workman helped translate it- asking them wouldn't hurt.

After the war, Sokaku accompanied his father Sokichi, who had the rank of "ozeki" – the second highest rank in Sumo – to provincial Sumo tournaments, where he worked as a caller. Sokaku’s extraordinary beautiful voice, which was high-pitched and penetrating, was the result of his training for this work. He was also ordered to demonstrate "Shokiri Sumo" [3] to arouse interest in the spectators, because, even though he was small in stature, he had attained a high level of agility as a result of his Sumo training.

This was sometime during the 1860's-1900'S and official records only "started" from the 1930's onward in Sumo. So, finding him would be a matter of going to see where this all started: the Aizu Sumo Wrestlers Party.

Tokimune Takeda seems like he has a lot of this information and has done a lot of footwork it seems. Wouldn't hurt to find out if he knows.


Brian Griffin
25th November 2003, 01:34
Originally posted by Mekugi
Tokimune Takeda seems like he has a lot of this information and has done a lot of footwork it seems. Wouldn't hurt to find out if he knows.Asking him at this point may prove problematic, but if anybody would like to try ...
... I'll gladly chip in for the Ouija board:)

Nathan Scott
25th November 2003, 01:45
[Post deleted by user]

25th November 2003, 07:33
Ohh yeah, he's dead.


Well there is always the Hombu....or Brian Workman....or the Hombu...


Originally posted by Brian Griffin
Asking him at this point may prove problematic, but if anybody would like to try ...
... I'll gladly chip in for the Ouija board:)

Stéphan Thériault
26th November 2003, 03:46
To see some sumo shiko go to the following site:

26th November 2003, 12:23
by Stanley Pranin
Aiki News #67

AIKI NEWS would like to express its gratitude to Tokimune Takeda Sensei for granting permission to publish this summary of the history of the Daito-ryu tradition. Tokimune Sensei is the present headmaster of Daito-ryu. His dojo which is the headquarters of Daito-ryu Aiki Budo is located at the following address: Daitokan Dojo, 1-7 Midori-cho, Abashiri- shi, Hokkaido, JAPAN 093. Tel. 0152(44)7429.

Tegoi, Origin of Sumo
Daito-ryu Aiki Budo has its origins based on the concept of "tegoi". The concept of tegoi comes from a passage in the Kojiki which reads as follows: "... When Takeminakata no kami took the hand of Takemikazuchi no kami, the hand changed into a column of ice, then again changed into a sword blade and the latter was completely hopeless. Then Takemikazuchi no kami in turn took the hand of Takeminakata no kami. He held it as if grasping a young reed and cast it aside". It is this tegoi which is said to be at the origin of Sumo and its techniques have been transmitted as "Aiki In-Yo (yin-yang) method" and now constitute the basic techniques of Daito-ryu Aiki Nage. This form of tegoi was transmitted for a long period until the Sumo Assembly of the Kamakura warriors (Kamakura Period = 1192-1333). In 868 during the reign of the Emperor Seiwa, supervision over court banquet Sumo was transferred over to the Board of Military Affairs and was controlled by the Imperial guards thereafter. From that time Sumo developed as a martial technique. The art continued to be transmitted through Emperor Seiwa's descendants of the Seiwa-Genji family for six generations through Shinra Saburo Minamoto no (Genji) Yoshimitsu.
This Yoshimitsu served in the Emperor's court and was said to have been a strong Sumo wrestler and the best yumitori (Sumo wrestler receiving the championship bow). He was also an expert performer on the free-reed mouth organ and often played this instrument to traditional dances performed at the court. He realized that there was in the elegance and suppleness of these dances a certain formlessness without openings which allowed numerous permutations. He made additions to the secret methods of the Genji tradition and formalized the secret techniques of Aiki.

Origin of Daito-ryu
The origin of the name "Daito-ryu" is based on a story in which Yoshimitsu, as a child, lived in the mansion of Daito in Oe (present-day Shiga Prefecture) and was called Saburo Daito. Yoshimitsu studied Chinese military tactics and in his later years trained his spirit and body in the Enjo-Shrine Mikkyo Dojo. He was later appointed governor of Kai (present Yamanashi Prefecture) due to his military exploits during the Gosannen no Ek i war fought at that time (1083-1087). One of his descendants moved to Takeda Village in the Kita-Koma district of Kai and acquired the name of Takeda.

The younger brother of the famous daimyo Shingen Takeda (1521-1573), Kunitsugu, arrived in Aizu in 1574 and became governor of the Aizu Clan centered in present-day Fukushima Prefecture. Kunitsugu's descendants of the Takeda family settled in Aizu and served in the position of chief priests of local temples. The Takeda family transmitted the secret methods of Daito-ryu Aiki in the form of kogusoku (a martial art where one arrests a criminal without carrying any weapons dressed "only in armor") through successive generations.
Daito-ryu Centered in Aizu

An important figure in the e-volution of Daito-ryu was a certain Masanori Hoshina. Parenthetically, he became an adopted child of a son of a retainer of Shingen Takeda and a younger sister of the first Shogun Ieyasu Tokugawa. Masanori made a triumphant entry into Aizu Castle in 1643 as a lord of the Clan. It is said that Masanori governed well. In 1651 he became the guardian and adviser to the eleven-year old fourth Shogun Ietsuna Tokugawa. He served in Edo Castle as an adviser for more than 20 years. During this time, in order to keep peace in the palace he revised Daito-ryu, which had been transmitted by the Aizu Clan through Kunitsugu Takeda, into a self-defense art called "Oshikiuchi" (lit., "court self-defense art"). He taught this art to members of the Shogun's Council of Elders and senior political figures. He also studied the secret arts of Onoha Itto-ryu. He required each succeeding lord of Aizu to transmit these two schools, that is, Onoha Itto-ryu and Oshikiuchi.
The latter art was transmitted by the Saigo family of the Aizu Clan for many generations. It is said that the Saigo residence had more than 30 rooms. Oshikiuchi was taught in this residence to senior political personages as a secret art never to be allowed out of the house.

A distant descendant of the Takeda family, Soemon, studied In-Yo-Do in Kyoto receiving a diploma. When he returned to Aizu Oike (as the chief priest of Oisenomiya), he was reputed to be a master of Shindo, In-Yo-Do and Daito-ryu. He instructed in various areas and also taught the secrets of these arts to Saigo Tanomo, the head retainer of the Aizu Family. The eldest son of Soemon, Sokichi, studied Sumo, Kenjutsu, Sojutsu (hasshaku bo) and Daito-ryu as a youth and later became known for his incredible strength. He became an ozeki (second highest Sumo rank) among the wrestlers in Aizu. He participated in the Aizu War and many other battles and was recognized for his distinguished military service. Stories about his courage and strength abound.

Nathan Scott
26th November 2003, 19:49
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