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Doug Daulton
24th October 2000, 17:11
An open thread dedicated to general questions regarding the flail as used in Okinawan weapons traditions

Walter Kopitov
24th October 2000, 17:47
In our system we require the nunchaku to be 14 inches long with a 4 inch string so the total length is 32 inches. I'm curious if that is the standard size? and If other schools have other requirements. I teach Nihon Goshin Aikido and we have a variety of wrist locks and crushes with the nunchaku but no Kata just self-defense technique. How does that differ from the traditional Okinawan arts? The reason I ask is that I usualy see only kata and no bunkai.

Walt

JS3
24th October 2000, 19:40
in the style of kobudo that I study the length of the handle is determined by the individual.
Grasping the handle from the top (where the rope is attached) it should extend to your elbow.

We also have locks in our system.
For this reason the rope is slightly narrower than your palm. This allows for "pain compliance" techniques.

The total length when gripped by the end (standing upright, arms to the side) should be just above the ankles.

Also the rope should consist of 3 strands. Just 2 means that the rope is tied and the knot could come undone.
With 3 strands the ends are wrapped around the cord so that when you swing the nunchaku or apply a "pulling" force the "knot" tightens. (I'll try to post some pics tonight)

This is all IMHO
Good luck with your training.
joe

Neil Hawkins
25th October 2000, 03:29
I have to admit I know very little about Ryukyu Kobudo, but I have a question.

My instructor teaches a number of techniques similar to manrikigusari that utilise the nunchaku for locking and trapping rather than striking (you would not believe the power they generate on a wrist joint!), is it used in this fashion in the Okinawan arts?

Regards

Neil

kusanku
25th October 2000, 09:38
Neil-Yes.

Nunchaku is used in a locking and throwing fashion and yes, I would in fact believe the amount of pressure and pain they bring to bear, as I ave been teaching this use in Okinawan karate since about 1973.

Okinawan karate(shorin ha) Lore has it, that to defeat one unarmed opponent, youuse the nunchaku either closed, to strike one time, or open to lock/choke/crank/torque 'em down.

People don't believe how effective this is, as you say, but boy do they yell onna way down!:D

There is a whle series of blocks, strikes and locks done with a closed or closing nunchaku on someone's arm, leg or wrist, and also around about the upper areas of the person as well.

In closed nuchaku techniques, the nunchaku is held to the rear, in front of the solar plexus, and jabbing pokes are made to kyusho , and when an attack is made by oppoent, tai sabaki is utilized tosidestep, while the nunchaku strikes and then traps and locks, oh, the pain, the takedown is fast, fast, fast.

There will be no further resistance from the opponent, should you grip the nnchakun properly.Which, to tell you the truth, is none too difficult.

The initial 'blocks are actually strikes to vulnerable zones on the arms and legs, as well.

Walter Kopitov
25th October 2000, 13:12
where can you get a real nunchaku not the ASMA stuff? and how much?

BarthS
25th October 2000, 13:29
For those of you who may remmember the "Pueblo incident" years ago (the Pueblo was a US spy ship which was captured by the N. Koreans). I recall some news footage where a couple of N.Korean gaurds were leading a US seaman with a nunchaku wrapped around each wrist.

Steve Barth

Doug Daulton
25th October 2000, 15:20
Originally posted by Walter Kopitov
where can you get a real nunchaku not the ASMA stuff? and how much?

Walter,

Short of going to Japan, the two best sources of non-AWMA gear (by this I assume you mean no ball-bearing/chain-swivels, metal studs, etc.) are ...

Ryukyu Enterprises, Inc.
AKA Shureido USA
438 West Taft Avenue
Orange, CA 92665
714.921.0946 - Phone
714.921.4732 - Fax Only

and

The Kiyota Company
2326 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
410.366.8275 - Phone
800.783.2232 - Toll-Free
410.366.3540 - Fax Only

Shureido can be a bit pricey, but the gear is authentic/direct from Okinawa and built to last.

Kiyota is a bit less expensive and most of thier stuff is from the mainland. Still high quality gear though.

kusanku
26th October 2000, 06:38
Yes, Shureido.

Okinawan nunchaku are different than Japanese or American nunchaku.

Three strands, thicker ends, and harder wood make the difference.

The hard wood keeps a sharp edge to the eight edges they have, this plays an important role in use of locking, rolling and pressing techniques.

the Khazar Kid
4th November 2000, 03:25
The nunchaku is not a "flail". Grain Flails were long-hafted tools, and were also adapted as weapons in Okinawan, Chinese, and European martial arts. I forget the name of the Okinawan flail, but I saw it mentioned in one of Mark Bishop's or Patrick McCarthy's Okinawan martial arts books. Can anyone here help with what the real Okinawan flail is called? Thanks!!

Jesse Peters

Hank Irwin
6th November 2000, 17:21
Originally posted by the Khazar Kid
The nunchaku is not a "flail". Grain Flails were long-hafted tools, and were also adapted as weapons in Okinawan, Chinese, and European martial arts. I forget the name of the Okinawan flail, but I saw it mentioned in one of Mark Bishop's or Patrick McCarthy's Okinawan martial arts books. Can anyone here help with what the real Okinawan flail is called? Thanks!!

Jesse Peters

Okinawan nunchakun were originally horse bridels, which my associate here at "The A.O.A. Guild", Kyoshi Gordon Garland makes. I believe he charges around $60.00 a pair. Anyone looking for Traditional Koryu weaponry please visit me at http://irwinsan.tripod.com/AcademyofOkinawanArts All weaponry come with cirtificate of authenticity and "life-time" guarantee against fabrication defects.

Sensei Irwin

Nobody
7th April 2008, 22:14
Good afternoon,

Does anyone know exactly how to triple string nunchaku? I have used the nunchaku with double strings for some time now and never had a problem, but the strings are beginning to show some slight wear and I don't have any more clamps to fasten the ends together. Any information would be appreciated. Thank you for your consideration in this matter.

JS3
8th April 2008, 12:24
Here's a good guide thats should be easy to follow:
Triple String Nunchaku (http://youtube.com/watch?v=w2mf_BPpklU)
Most people use parachute cord to string their nunchaku. It's cheap and durable.

Nobody
12th April 2008, 16:17
Here's a good guide thats should be easy to follow:
Triple String Nunchaku (http://youtube.com/watch?v=w2mf_BPpklU)
Most people use parachute cord to string their nunchaku. It's cheap and durable.

Thanks a lot for the information. I'll have to watch it a few more times before I try it, but many thanks for that link.

Nyuck3X
12th April 2008, 18:14
You posted that instructional just in time!
A brand new pair broke on me a few weeks ago
(crappy cotton) and I strung them with new nylon.

Thanks for the heads-up. Those knots really
chinch-up tight!

andy.m
13th April 2008, 11:37
Perhaps describing them as a 'rice flail' was as a cover to disguise the fact that they were weapons? Hoping the Japanese overseer wouldn't catch on.
That said in Draegers 'Modern Bujutsu and Budo' (vol 3) there is a photo of Jigoro Kano with some students (C1920's) and one of them is holding a set of nunchaku! Any thoughts on this.-Andy

t.matsutaka
13th April 2008, 18:08
Perhaps describing them as a 'rice flail' was as a cover to disguise the fact that they were weapons? Hoping the Japanese overseer wouldn't catch on.
That said in Draegers 'Modern Bujutsu and Budo' (vol 3) there is a photo of Jigoro Kano with some students (C1920's) and one of them is holding a set of nunchaku! Any thoughts on this.-Andy
I would like to see that photo if it's available. I wonder if it's online somewhere?

andy.m
13th April 2008, 22:28
I would like to see that photo if it's available. I wonder if it's online somewhere?

I've found it accompanying the article "A brief look at the 'root art' of Judo"
by Steven Cunningham. At the link below. This article appears on several websites but this is the one using the photo I mention. It's poor quality compared to the book but its the best i could find, look at the student top right. It's also on google images if you enter Jigoro Kano and trawl through- Andy
http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~yian/roots.htm

t.matsutaka
13th April 2008, 23:30
I've found it accompanying the article "A brief look at the 'root art' of Judo"
by Steven Cunningham. At the link below. This article appears on several websites but this is the one using the photo I mention. It's poor quality compared to the book but its the best i could find, look at the student top right. It's also on google images if you enter Jigoro Kano and trawl through- Andy
http://www.sp.uconn.edu/~yian/roots.htm

Yes that's quite a famous photo but do you really think that is a nun-chaku. Looks like some kind of gardening tool to me <smile>

Brian Owens
13th April 2008, 23:37
...in Draegers 'Modern Bujutsu and Budo' (vol 3) there is a photo of Jigoro Kano with some students (C1920's) and one of them is holding a set of nunchaku! Any thoughts on this.-Andy
It appears to me that the student at far right in the back row is holding a weapon that consists of a staff with a flail section; a sort of hybrid between a jo and a nunchaku.

I can't recall the name of this weapon, but if memory serves it was used to both strike and entangle the legs of horses, throwing the rider, as well as to give a reach advantage when used against swordsmen.

The caption to the photo in Draeger's MB&B (plate 25 on pages 94 & 95) reads, "Jigoro Kano...in 1921 with classical bujutsu exponents."

In the front row at far left is a young Shimizu Takaji holding a kusarigama, and in the back row, next to the man with the sectioned weapon, is a man holding a jo. It looks like the two men seated to either side of Kano Sensei are holding tessen.

andy.m
13th April 2008, 23:37
Yes that's quite a famous photo but do you really think that is a nun-chaku. Looks like some kind of gardening tool to me <smile>

That's the whole idea, 'course I'm not armed! WHAM!!!
-Andy:laugh:

Brian Owens
13th April 2008, 23:46
Yes that's quite a famous photo but do you really think that is a nun-chaku. Looks like some kind of gardening tool to me <smile>
Hmmm.

I'm looking more closely at the photo. Too bad the resolution isn't better.

I really can't tell if the weapon/tool has a flexible link and one section is tucked under the man's arm, or if it's a solid piece and the horizontal section is a short blade.

sepai 85
14th April 2008, 22:24
I'm a Goju ryu guy so My exposure is fairly limited, so I don't have much to offer.

I trained/train Matayoshi Kobudo and learned little bits here and there. Geez, its hard enough getting proficient at bo and tonkua hojo undo :) The little I did learn was from Neil Stolsmark (Sorry about the spelling) I don't claim to remember how he did most of what he did but he twisted locked and threw us around with the nunchuku. I enjoyed it.

I know one or two locks with the tool but I am just a newby with weapons.

Yours in Budo

armanox
18th April 2008, 05:23
Walter,

Short of going to Japan, the two best sources of non-AWMA gear (by this I assume you mean no ball-bearing/chain-swivels, metal studs, etc.) are ...

Ryukyu Enterprises, Inc.
AKA Shureido USA
438 West Taft Avenue
Orange, CA 92665
714.921.0946 - Phone
714.921.4732 - Fax Only

and

The Kiyota Company
2326 N. Charles Street
Baltimore, MD 21218
410.366.8275 - Phone
800.783.2232 - Toll-Free
410.366.3540 - Fax Only

Shureido can be a bit pricey, but the gear is authentic/direct from Okinawa and built to last.

Kiyota is a bit less expensive and most of thier stuff is from the mainland. Still high quality gear though.

Ah, Mr. Kiyota. He's quite the character if you ever get to meet him (and he needs a bigger shop. I live in Baltimore and buy just about everything from him).

andy.m
24th April 2008, 22:07
Here's a question on Nunchaku. Why no 'classical' Kata?( I use the term classical with caution , but here to mean pre-20th century)in Okinawan Kobudo.
-Andy

JS3
24th April 2008, 23:08
Here's a question on Nunchaku. Why no 'classical' Kata?( I use the term classical with caution , but here to mean pre-20th century)in Okinawan Kobudo.
-Andy

From my understanding the nunchaku was more of a "peasant" weapon.
Weapons like the jo, bo, nunti-bo and sai where used by the peichin class and so had
more "formal" training methods.

As far as the tonfa, kama amd others i'm not sure how old those kata can be
but my understanding is that the ieku kata "Tsuken Aka-Chu No Ieku De"
is a few hundred years old, so the story goes.

harleyt26
26th April 2008, 17:57
I have had the problem with nunchaku wearing the strings in the past.I found Crane Mountain Weapons will put brass inserts in their nunchaku that releive the wear on the strings but I think if you use sand paper and or steel wool at the exit holes to smooth the wear points the strings will last much longer.
Performance nunchaku are gripped closer to the forward end of the nunchaku and are spun with the sticks at a ninety degree angle(or greater) to each other causing more wear than the traditional method where the nunchaku are gripped closer the rear end and the nunchaku and are swung trying to keep the nunchaku in a straight line this increases the reach and cetrifugal force,this does not cause as much wear on the strings.
Tom Hodges

andy.m
26th April 2008, 20:06
Have you tried lubricating the cord/string? I put a smear of vegetable oil on my nunchaku every couple of month's. In over 15 years I've only had to re-string them 3 or 4 times. Just dip your finger in the veg oil and wipe around the concave hole where the cord/string leaves the wooden end.
-Andy

Simon Keegan
28th April 2008, 19:04
There may be a better oil than vegetable oil. Years ago when I fenced I lubricated the nut under the pommel of an epee with vegetable oil and it became quite mouldy.
Maybe WD40?

Harlan
28th April 2008, 19:32
It's not 'traditional', but I use high quality, braided climbing rope (EMS carries it in different widths by the yard). Lasts me about two years...long enough to forget how to re-string them. :)

Nyuck3X
29th April 2008, 00:55
There may be a better oil than vegetable oil. Years ago when I fenced I lubricated the nut under the pommel of an epee with vegetable oil and it became quite mouldy.
Maybe WD40?

WD40 is actually a solvent. Try tung or mineral oil instead.
If it's steel like on a sword pommel, I'd use silicone.

Peace.

Brian Owens
29th April 2008, 04:16
For nunchaku strings, I recommend beeswax on the portion of the string that comes in contact with the end of the sticks. (Not, for obvious reasons, near the knots.)