View Full Version : saving a martial arts school
KumdoFleck
16th April 2004, 14:46
I know the sujbct of attracting students has been covered here, but I am having some major attendance problems. I study at a school in columbus, ohio. We offer two arts, Taekwondo and Haedong Kumdo (the later only entering the states roughly around 1998) My master is the only known master of this art located here in the states. I would have thought that information like that would give him the full class that he deserves. yet, our numbers have been dropping since the beginning of the year. the space we rent requires a minimum of 8 people to keep, and we struggle to keep it at that. there are many other martial arts in the same location, but they don't seem to suffer from the same problems. any clues on what we might be doing wrong? or any ideas to raise our member count? I know that a sword art can be expensive to start in, but the strange thing is that our new members practice until they have purchased all the gear they need (not incredibly cheap) and then stop coming. thanks for any advise.
Mitch Saret
16th April 2004, 19:52
You must realize that the public doesn't know much about the different arts, just what they see on movies and tv. They really don't care what the art is until we educate them on the differences. Too be honest, saying that your master deserves a full class is a bit arrogant. He deserves what he goes out and gets. If he has low attendance maybe he should look at other things.
Ultimately, what he needs to dois communicate what benefit his art can bring to people's lives. They could really care less about what art it is, until you tell them the difference. And that should be saved for after they have been training for a bit.
Wounded Ronin
17th April 2004, 00:52
Sell out with flashy demos. That would probably get people in.
Also, hold a "take back the night" thingie at a university and then offer lessons. That might reel people in as well.
Mekugi
17th April 2004, 01:05
Get a smaller space?
Originally posted by KumdoFleck
I know the sujbct of attracting students has been covered here, but I am having some major attendance problems. I study at a school in columbus, ohio. We offer two arts, Taekwondo and Haedong Kumdo (the later only entering the states roughly around 1998) My master is the only known master of this art located here in the states. I would have thought that information like that would give him the full class that he deserves. yet, our numbers have been dropping since the beginning of the year. the space we rent requires a minimum of 8 people to keep, and we struggle to keep it at that. there are many other martial arts in the same location, but they don't seem to suffer from the same problems. any clues on what we might be doing wrong? or any ideas to raise our member count? I know that a sword art can be expensive to start in, but the strange thing is that our new members practice until they have purchased all the gear they need (not incredibly cheap) and then stop coming. thanks for any advise.
Allie
17th April 2004, 21:07
Thanks for the emails. I am supposed to monitor and respond to many of the questions that are posted so here goes.
Don't take advice from anyone who says "Sell Out - do Flashy Demo". It is obvious this person is not talking with any experience of running a school. What is wrong with a flashy demo. Isn't that the exact mean of a demo. Or should someone do a boring demo. That is hillarious.
As far as an instructor not deserving a particular amount of students in their class. I don't agree either. Certain teachers are so unbelievable that they deserve to have thousands of students. What I do agree with is that a person makes their own destiny. So it is up to you to encourage people to get more students.
If you are really interested in building the school and finding out what is wrong with the situation check out my site at Takingittothenextleve.com. This is a site set up for exactly what you are asking for. There is a ton of info for you there. Enjoy.
In spirit;
Allie ALberigo
Takingittothenextlevel.com
KumdoFleck
17th April 2004, 23:39
thank you for Allie for actually choosing to help me.
to the rest of you, The point of this post was to seek help in raising membership, to hear how others have done so. I was not looking for an insult to my master. As I hope any of you out there would also do, I will defend my master until my last breath. The comment about my master deserving a full class was in no way arrogant, I was refering to the fact that he left his dojang in Korea, where he had a large number of student, to come to the states and share the arts.
enough of my ranting, it just upset me to come onto this forum seeking help only to be answered with off topic insult.
Mekugi
18th April 2004, 07:15
Pat,
Let's revisit your initial post:
Any clues on what we might be doing wrong? or any ideas to raise our member count?
A clue to what you may be doing wrong:
The economics of the situation that you currently have,that is a small amount of students, indicates to me that your work space is too expensive and more than likely too large. Now, if you are looking to invest money into marketing, which is as it sounds: EXPENSIVE, then you are going to loose money in your current situation unless your marketing campaign is something extraordinary. Even then, there is no guarantee that you will turn a profit unless the students that you gained from your campaign stay on past the initial cost of adverstising to generate revenue. So what you really need to do is either find a cheap way to advertise to stay afloat or find a smaller/cheaper space to use until you can afford to grow.
Simple! There are no insults in economics and if you think there is, you need to move on.
There were no off topic insults on this thread, toungue and cheek in ONE but that was it. Something to think about at least.
-Russ
Originally posted by KumdoFleck
thank you for Allie for actually choosing to help me.
to the rest of you, The point of this post was to seek help in raising membership, to hear how others have done so. I was not looking for an insult to my master. As I hope any of you out there would also do, I will defend my master until my last breath. The comment about my master deserving a full class was in no way arrogant, I was refering to the fact that he left his dojang in Korea, where he had a large number of student, to come to the states and share the arts.
enough of my ranting, it just upset me to come onto this forum seeking help only to be answered with off topic insult.
KumdoFleck
18th April 2004, 15:01
I guess I wasn't clear in my initial post. sorry for that. our practice space is not a burden to the club funds. we are located on the OSU college campus. our space is provided in the rec. center on the campus. we are given a small account from the school to aid in our advertising fee's. my question was based on the ways that others like yourselves came about that advertising. we currently use fliers but as I learned in a previous post, one needs more than a single form of exposure. sorry if I miss took your previous post as rude comments, i'm not a man for excuses, so I bit my tounge and apologize. I just was looking for some advise so as not to see a great art die.
Allie
18th April 2004, 15:13
Hey Everyone:
That is the norm amoungst martial artists, we perceive things as insults with the other person having the ego the size of the earth itself. The reality is that words can be taken out of context. Email if famous for that. I make my own mother mad at me at times, because words are taken many different ways. What's happening here is people are offering their opinions. The simple fact is that sometimes a persons opinion insults another. Take everything as a lesson. Let's not worry about those silly things.
I think that if you want your program/school to grow you can do it easily if you follow some simple formats. The martial arts business is growing by leaps and bounds. With some really credible schools and others that should not even be in the teaching field of any kind.
It is my dedication to help school owners, because I am one of them. Currently I have 5 schools with over 1200 students and two affiliate schools in other countries (Costa Rica and Bermuda) with associates in the U.K, Colorado and Ireland. So if there is any specific questions that I can help you with or anyone with, please just email me at Renshilininja@aol.com or place your post on this site. Also you can check out my website at takingittothenextlevel.com. The site is loaded with free information on how to run and operate a successful martial arts school.
In spirit;
Allie Alberigo
Mitch Saret
19th April 2004, 19:18
KumdoFleck,
If you felt insulted by my remark, it's partly as Allie said, posts here cannot convey emotions. You saying he deserves a lot of students reminded me of one of my cousins. He felt he deserved a high paying job, but didn't do any training, or much looking, to get one. Now, I am not saying your master has not trained, don't get me wrong. Many instructors deserve lot's of students...ME INCLUDED!!! LOL The reality is, saying you, or he, deserve it doesn't make it so.
And it comes off as arrogant, even though you did not mean it that way. Here, he has to work to get what he deserves. He has to earn others respect and gain student's confidence. In that way students will bring in other students.
My idea of helping may not have seemed much help. But again, you have to understand that the average person, looking to learn an art, very rarely has any idea about the different arts. So while he should focus on the art and what it is during teaching of classes, whgen trying to attract students, he needs to focus on what the art can do for people. Showing off his rankings and honors honestly doesn't do much for the average person looking to take an art...they really don't care. You an me do, we have been doing this awhile. But when I first started, almost 30 years ago, I didn't know what rank the instructors were until I was told. And that was after almost a year into the instruction.
As americans, we are driven by "What can this do for me" before anything else. That was the point I was trying to make. Defend your master to the hilt. I would do the same. But for someone new to come in, your master has to cultivate that relationship. It's not automatic.
Good luck with it.
Allie
20th April 2004, 02:44
Hello to everyone:
I do agree that people do not deserve anything, and that everyone has to work for things. Yet, there are some really unbelievable masters that are great martial artists, but bad teachers. I do see where Mitch is coming from. Anyway, running a martial arts school has nothing to do with being the toughest, or the one with the most accomplishments, if that were the case many martial artists would have successful schools. It is really about having the most professional school and becoming the best teacher.
In spirit;
Allie Alberigo
Takingittothenextlevel.com
Lininja.com
Blackwood
20th April 2004, 11:00
Communications is the key. The questions, as you know, is how to do it.
I have a small school, 25 students, a branch of the main dojo. I only teach kids, as that as a restriction my teacher has placed on me, at least until I make Shodan. But over half my students are the results of a single individual spreading the word.
The best advertisement is excited students talking about what they are learning. The feedback I have gotten from parents is that they like my consistancy, no hype, reasonable pricing, and an organization behind me that they can see and interact with.
The biggest boost I had was when my Sensei visited for the first time. Other visits by my classmates was important to show the friendships and cooperation. And I let them see and watch the higher level stuff, so they can see there is more in the future.
The other thing I do is a monthly newsletter. Nothing big, single page, provides some key dates in the future for planning, acknowledgements of milestones and promotions, perhaps a training tip or other interesting bit of history.
Allie
20th April 2004, 13:24
Dear Blackwood:
I am not sure if you have a question or just making some statements. I am happy that you are on the path and that you are prospering. I do find it odd that your teacher would allow you to teach children before he allowed you to teach adults. Adults are easy to teach, children are hard to teach. Plus, you must be a more qualified teacher to teach children. If you ever need anything don't hesitate to post.
In spirit;
Allie Alberigo
Takingittothenextlevel.com
KumdoFleck
20th April 2004, 17:26
thanks for the advice, now we are getting somewhere. most of our members have atleast tried to get a friend or two to drop by sometime. any other ideas on how to show "what this can do for you" to the thousands of people around the campus? we've tried demonstrations in the past, but those incharge of the location hardly ever realize the space one needs to demonstrate a sword art.
Allie
22nd April 2004, 14:40
Dear Patrick:
I have made all the mistakes. The biggest one was to think that because I thought it was great, that others would of also. I realize that now it is about appealing at first to the people watching and listening. You must find the benefits of what you do and then try to get that out to the public. No one really cares if you do sword or can jump in the air and do a backlflip, unless that is what they want to learn.
You must tailor you marketing to the campus, maybe a few self-defense and awareness classes. Maybe a class for girls on car jacking, or even how to recognize the proper distance for safety. Then try to get them into your program. It is not the easiest thing, dealing with college people. They are focused on to many other things. Like the opposite sex and school. Plus, they don't have a huge amount of time on their hands, between study and life.
In spirit;
Allie Alberigo
Takingittothenextlevel.com
Renshilininja@aol.com
KumdoFleck
22nd April 2004, 18:06
glad to inform you all, your help has really made a difference in our club. one other thing that helped, I'm now on the university's Martial Arts Committee. the biggest question I have gotten is what in the heck is kumdo, simply answering that question has really helped in the recruiting. Imagine, the obvious action is all we needed :laugh: thanks again for all your help, and I'm always open for more ideas.
HinodeBuddha
17th May 2004, 00:22
A big part of getting and retaining students is location. I think in your current location you have that covered.
I have been studying Japanese swordsmanship since 1999. My teacher has only three students to date. There have been several that started and last for a fair amount of time but only a few that have really made it a point to continue training. It is my opinion that students that desire to train sword will stick it out. Some, due to the movies, will begin but soon realize that it is a lot more difficult than picking up a sword and becoming proficient.
The benefits of training sword aren't as easily translated as hand to hand arts, though the benefits are wonderful. It just takes time.
Demos are great, flyers are good. Try putting on a seminar inviting students in the area to attend and experience your sword style. This is after all how I found my Sensei.
If you know of other schools in the area you could go in and put on mini seminars as well. This way you are marketing to a specific group that already has martial arts experience and will understand better what the benefits would be. Swordwork can be a compliment to any style.
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