View Full Version : Takeuchi-ryu

3rd January 2001, 01:16
Good day and how do. I was reading the recent Kashima Shinryu thread and the idea of changing a koryu was brought up and then quickly shot down. Now this is a different case entirely, I'm assuming that this (supposed) change was brought about by a soke or somebody within the system with enough clout to say this is how it's gonna be. What I'm referring to is a vague rumor (one source only) I'd heard that Takeuichi-ryu adopted a whack of chinese unarmed and unarmored techniques about two hundred years ago to adapt with the times. Nobody was wearing armor or carrying swords anymore so the ryu-ha was slowly declining. Is this true, can anybody confirm this rumor?

Second question. Soapbox warning. Why can't this be done again? We don't argue the addition of Tessen kata (edogidai) to a sengokugidai ryu-ha. Who's gonna argue the addition of pistol retention techniques or breathing exercises to a traditional ryu-ha if the intentions are not to keep it as a museum piece but a living breathing martial system? Why can't a cop (if he/she so chooses) learn a jo style and firearms style within the same ryu-ha? We don't argue about learning Mochi-Yari along with Tessen do we?

[Edited by Sheridan on 01-02-2001 at 07:38 PM]

Just some guy
3rd January 2001, 13:26
I don't know what everyone else might be thinking but I can tell you my opinions on this subject. In general there really doesn't seem to be a big problem with adding things into a Koryu as far as my readings have lead me to believe. The problem comes when the wrong person adds something into things. To put it simply, any idiot can have an opinion, having a good one takes time, training and expiriance. As I understand many of the Soke have made changes to a Koryu be it by adding basic techniques or a new weapon or so on. However the Soke is the one who knows what he is doing. If someone else makes changes as he or she wishes, then you can't be sure what you're getting. Now, what happens when the Soke doesn't know how to use a gun, or anything like that. Well, then there are no gun techniques.
I don't think that change is the big problem in Koryu traning. The thing that everyone seems to be avoiding is Jo-Blow-I'm-better-than-you-even-though-I've-only-done-this-two-weeks changing everything he sees because he hasn't developed the skill to do things right.
Well, there's my little rant on the theme. Hope I helped and didn't screw things up to much.
Chris Baker

3rd January 2001, 18:28
Adding stuff to various ryuha happens. It's no mystery, and there is really no problem with it. Just remember that the only person who can do the adding is the head of the ryuha. If you look at MJER/MSR you'll notice that the various iai sets were incorporated at different times throughout history. Nakayama Sensei added a couple of kata as late as the middle of the 20th century. In Shinto Muso Ryu tanjojutsu was also added at the beginning of the 20th century. The thing is, only the head of the ryuha has the authority to decide what's in and what's out.

One of the problems with adding stuff to a ryuha is the extra time required to become proficient. Look at Takenouchi ryu. It's curriculum already takes a couple of decades to learn. If you add another weapon that adds at LEAST another year the learning cycle. More often, it's easier to tell a student where to learn the particular item they want/need. If a ryu head decides that something is really important, then HE has to go learn it before it can be incorporated. That also takes a long time, and he may change his mind during the years that are required.

Peter Boylan

anton coronelli
7th February 2005, 09:54
I have ran into these video clips (links below) on a site dedicated to Korean arts alledgedly of Japanese origin.


The clips are in an aikido directory though the demonstrated definitely does not look like aikido. Rather, it seems like some tantojutsu, kenjutsu, (aiki)jujutsu, etc. Does anyone know or has an idea what art is demonstrated and what is the origin of these videos? Can anybody recognize any koryu in these?

Thank you!

Anton Coronelli

P.S.: should the links above fail to open, these clips can be found on this site (http://jungkikwan.com/) . Click on movies and scroll down - the clips I refer to are labeled DAKE1,2,3 and are among aikido and judo clips.

Ron Beaubien
7th February 2005, 12:14

That is Takenouchi-ryu, a koryu jujutsu school based in Okayama.

Those video clips were taken from Shinden no Bujutsu: Takenouchi-ryu (Martial Art Transmitted from the Deities: Takenouchi-ryu) by Takenouchi Toichiro. It was a small book and video set that was published in 1993 by Gakushu Kenkyusha of Tokyo.

I hope that helps.



anton coronelli
7th February 2005, 12:24
Thanks a lot, Ron!


Nathan Scott
9th February 2005, 03:47

Since these clips are not of AJJ, and include some of the weapon aspects of Takenouchi-ryu, I re-named and moved this thread to the koryu forum for better search results.


9th February 2005, 22:58
Wow. I normally just troll here, but I had to ask about the second video clip. Is the person performing the first technique on the second video actually holding the blade with his left hand? Or is he holding the back? It's a little hard for me to tell.

George Kohler
9th February 2005, 23:10
Originally posted by crazykl45
Or is he holding the back?

He's holding the mune with the left hand.

9th February 2005, 23:21
----------------------------------------------------------------------Originally posted by crazykl45
Or is he holding the back?

Originally posted by George Kohler
He's holding the mune with the left hand.

Isn't he holding the wrist?

(Or is this old aikido man just flattering himself?...)

George Kohler
9th February 2005, 23:37
Originally posted by don

Isn't he holding the wrist?

(Or is this old aikido man just flattering himself?...)

On the second clip on this thread, in the first scene, the defender is holding the tsuka with the right hand, and the muna is resting in the left hand (on the web between the thumb and the index finger). The video quality is not that good, so I'll have to check my video at home to verify.

10th February 2005, 00:45
I must say, I was pretty impressed by that kata as well - very dramatic.

EDIT - Oh, And our esteemed Mr. Kohler has just stabbed the correct square in the throat.

10th February 2005, 02:18
I just watched the video tape and George is correct. There is a book that goes along with the tape and I don't think that kata is pictured in the book like most of the others are.

George I have a little more free time and I will get to the question you asked me before.

10th February 2005, 02:23
Originally posted by anton coronelli

They call it kogusoku koshi no mawari.

George Kohler
10th February 2005, 03:17
Originally posted by ChrisMoon
George I have a little more free time and I will get to the question you asked me before.

Hi Chris,

I almost forgot about that.

Originally posted by Finny
Oh, And our esteemed Mr. Kohler has just stabbed the correct square in the throat.

That was a good pun.