View Full Version : What jujutsu ryu started it all?

Jerry Johnson
1st December 2000, 18:02
I have often wondered with the jumping on bandwagons that go on in the martial arts if Daito ryu is really the most influential jujutsu? What about Takenouchi ryu?

I figure Daito ryu is new to the international martial arts scene. It hasn't become a house hold name but within the last 10 years. I have read it wasn't even officially practice on foreign soil until about 1990. I also read it was kept hidden from the Japanese until mid 1900's. In contrast, jujutsu like Takenouchi ryu was popular in America in early 1900. From what I have been told ryu's like Takenouchi was open to the Japanese public and practice for many centuries before the opening of Daito ryu.

Does any one agree Daito ryu, as a fine art and respectable ryu as it is, is getting undo credit due its popularity as the parent of jujutsu? I think many of what people practice today really isn't Daito ryu derived but rather of another jujutsu ryu.

Michael Becker
1st December 2000, 18:56
Hello Jerry

Daito ryu was created by Takeda Sokaku sensei mainly from the oshikiuchi arts that he learned.

The teachings may be quite old, but the 'Daito' ryu is not.

see here http://www.panix.com/~rjm/daito.html

and here http://www.koryubooks.com/guide/daito.html

Who said that Daito ryu was the most influential school? I havent read or heard such claims myself.

Ellis Amdur makes a few observations regarding Daito ryu in his new book, Duelling with O'Sensei, ( see the forum at the bottom of the index page ).

Takenouchi ryu on the other hand seems to be recognised as the first school to use the term jujutsu and has certainly been influencial in the creation of other ryu ( Araki ryu for example ).

http://www.koryubooks.com has lots of useful information regarding the koryu and also publish two very informative volumes on the koryu.

Jerry Johnson
1st December 2000, 20:40
Great information. I tried to find the part about Daito ryu in the forum you suggested, but couldn't find it. Sorry.

I have the same notion as you.I agree with the origin of the term jujutsu which Daito ryu/ oshikiuchi /uses it too. I don't remember where I read it, but someone referred to Daito ryu as being the parent art to most modern jujutsu. I have also heared this too. I do remembering reading it somewhere. It may be the result of the Daito ryu pages on the web. I remember reading something about Daito ryu being taught to some where about 30,000 - 40,000 people in Japan. This could been on the web too. Granted, not everything on the web is correct I realize. Sorry for not remembering exactly where I read this stuff. You do seem to know allot about Daito ryu and maybe you know which page(s) I was looking at? I will looked at the other URLs you suggested, but I don't think it was there. I am pretty sure there are allot of jujutsu claiming Daito ryu background where they really might be Takenouchi ryu.

I would say Takenouchi ryu over Daito ryu is more likely what we say when we term jujutsu. Like you said jujutsu is more of a reference to Takenouchi ryu than Daito ryu. Matter of fact, it was along these lines of thought that got me looking into this in the first place.

Michael Becker
1st December 2000, 21:07
Hello Jerry

All I know regarding Daito ryu is what I have read. My experience of aiki is limited to a little Aikido I practiced a while back.

There are many curious claims being made on different websites. That is why I recommend you start looking at the Koryu books website, if you want reliable information, and go from there.

Neil Hawkins
3rd December 2000, 23:43
Closed as this is a duplicate.