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ScottUK
24th May 2006, 15:42
Hayashizaki Jinsuke Shigenobu - exactly what did he create? Did he have a ryu name?

I understand MJER was created by Oe sensei - was Hayashizaki the founder of Muso Jikiden Ryu? Shigenobu Ryu? Other?

I could point to a number of conflicting websites stating opposite points of view but I am going to leave it open to the viewers to add their own opinion here. Is there a definitive answer?

Charles Mahan
24th May 2006, 17:09
Oe-soke did not "create" MJER, although he did , what's the word... renovate? reformulate? synthesize?, Tosa Iai and coined the name MJER. As he was the legitimate soke at the time it was his perogative to do so. It is not a new style as such. Tracing the lineage back encounters other name changes as well. I forget the original name, but if you do some forum searching you're bound to turn it up.

100110
24th May 2006, 17:57
Off the top of my head... I think Jushin-ryu is also related to Hayashizaki Jinsuke. I dimly recall that "Jushin" might have been one of his names, or another reading of the characters of one of his name. Perhaps this is an older style? Shinmuso Hayashizaki ryu uses the name directly (and longish swords) but I don't think that indicates that Hayashizaki's original style is preserved. Another name I've heard is Shinmei Muso ryu.

Charles Mahan
24th May 2006, 18:11
There are dozens of arts that trace their lineage back to Hayashizaki. I thought the name that Hayashizaki gave to his art was well known, although it slips my mind at the moment.

riko seishin
24th May 2006, 20:46
If iI am not mistaken, the actual name he gave it was Shimmei Muso Ryu. But I believe his disciples started reffering to it as Shin Muso Hayashizaki Ryu. But that is just of the top of my head, soo I may not be right.