View Full Version : video: Gun ban in the UK (NRA)

John Lindsey
2nd November 2007, 03:41
Very sad video.


2nd November 2007, 08:04

"Despite a ban on handguns introduced in 1997 after 16 children and their teacher were shot dead in the Dunblane massacre the previous year, their use in crimes has almost doubled to reach 4,671 in 2005-06. Official figures show that although Britain has some of the toughest anti-gun laws in the world, firearm use in crime has risen steadily. This year eight young people have been killed in gun attacks: six in London and one each in Manchester and Liverpool. "

It's the same thing all over again: prohibition only punishes the law abiding populace.

It's same thing here in Finland: everytime there is a shooting, popular leftwing politicians demand stricter gun laws, when in fact guns are used only in 20% of all violent crime. The most popular weapon for killing is still ordinary kitchen knife or large scissors, and puukko. And that happens a lot, we have 3x more killings per capita than in rest of the western europe, some would even claim more than in the US but that falls down on statistical methods used and criteria.

There are some 1,8 million firearms in the hands of the private citizens which is quite alot for a population of 5.mil. so I don't really think we have a "gun" violence problem. Despite the large number of legal firearms the most crime committed with guns, is done with illegal firearms of which the police estimates there are some 100 000 - 200 000. After 1990 private citizens have surrendered some 30 000 illegal firearms and several tons of explosives to the police under the so called "buy back" programme.

So yes it would seem that the legally owned firearms are not the problem, and yes making people give up their right to own weapons does not reduce violent crime.

3rd November 2007, 21:39
I don't own a gun, never have. I've considered it, but between the cost of buying a gun and a personal "heightened respect" if you will, for guns (the few times I have fired them, I've been very nervous handling them - which is probably a good thing (watch where the muzzle is, it's loaded even if you think it's not, I hope I don't blow my foot off pulling it from the holster) - that might be just from lack of handling.

Anyway, not owning a gun doesn't make me think others shouldn't. AND, these people who fight for laws like these should realize that nothing makes someone like me want to go out and buy all the guns I can afford more than hearing that these kind of laws are in the works, and are likely to pass.

Just another something for the anti-gun lobby to think about.

John Lindsey
4th November 2007, 04:24
If you get a gun, get training. It is good that you have a healthy respect for them.

4th November 2007, 04:53
I just re-read my message and noticed the awkward syntax. Apologies.

As to getting training, I wouldn't dream of doing without it.

Steve Delaney
5th November 2007, 21:28
Since the legislation banning handguns in the UK, firearms offences have gone up. There was a big scandal years ago when a bunch of journalists smuggled a bunch of 12 Bore (Guage) pump-action shotguns from France to London via car, basically illustrating how criminals use non-licenced weapons to commit crimes (Pump-action SG's are banned in the United Kingdom.) They ferried them across in the boot of a hatchback Volvo across the channel and weren't even checked adequately.

What about the drive-bys on nightclubs in recent years where the shooters have used MAC11's? Ya don't get the licence option for that when you go to the police station for a firearms licence boys and girls!

The commoners - the voters were the ones that were victimized when these legislations came into effect. The politicians do not seem to target the criminals, only the tools they use for the job. Nihonto are next on the block for banned weapons, since they are "the weapon of vogue for this year's discerning and self-respecting hoodlum".

If they banned, all long firearms, swords and bladed objects in the United Kingdom today, crime rates would still be rising. They'd just be using table and chair legs as clubs. Or crowbars or claw hammers - Anything that is expedient. It's the criminal mind that is criminal and should be banned, not inanmate bloody objects.

7th November 2007, 06:26
What'll we do in the USA, if the Supreme Court on November 9th says that the "militia" is a "collective" of persons, and their weapons belong to the "collective", not the individual?

I know the REST of the Ammendments talk about individual rights, but they are ALSO tendered to the "needs of the multitude" (slander isn't "free speech", and all that).

If they say gun ownership is contingent on the collective militia, are you going to give YOURS up to the local armory?

Bottom line: if the Supreme Court REFUSES to hear the case, then the appeals court's decision stands -- "it is an individual right"; if they overturn the decision based on it being a "collective" right, our "right-to-bear-arms" argument -- LEGALLY -- is OVER.....

.....as for anything beyond that, who knows?

7th November 2007, 20:25

I just few days ago posted on this thread that guncrime is comparatively rare here in Finland....

Steve Delaney
9th November 2007, 10:16
It's always sod's law that when someone speaks out about these kind of topics, some nutjob decides to ruin it for everyone. Same old same old.

15th January 2008, 12:43
What's next? Harsh language....


Crackdown planned for 120,000 deactivated guns

Jacqui Smith is planning to impose tougher restrictions on deactivated firearms, amid mounting police concern at their use in shootings.

The Home Secretary announced yesterday that the possession of weapons that have supposedly been converted to make them impossible to fire could be banned by the end of the year.

The Conservatives said, however, that the proposal would have only a limited impact in reducing gun crime, as the latest Home Office figures showed that such weapons were used in only 0.04 per cent of reported incidents.

There are an estimated 120,000 deactivated firearms in Britain and Ms Smith’s proposal is aimed at weapons deactivated before 2005, when new standards were introduced to make it harder to convert nonfiring guns back into lethal weapons.

The Home Office said that the police are reporting that many firearms being used in crime were deactivated before 1995.

Ms Smith said she would consult over her proposals with the intention of allowing genuine collectors to keep legitimate firearms, while giving police the power to remove black-market weapons from the streets.

Ms Smith said: “We already have the tightest controls in Europe, but there is more we can do to remove the threat of gun crime.

“Before 1995 the standards for deactivating guns were less stringent than those which currently apply. The police tell me these pre1995 weapons are turning up more and more in gun-related crime and I want to address these concerns to effectively eliminate the threat from our streets.”

In another move to tackle gun crime, Ms Smith has asked the Serious Organised Crime Agency, set up in 2006, to make firearms-related offending a priority.

The Violent Crime Reduction Act 2006, which came into force last November, banned imitation firearms, but the police said that the measure did not go far enough.

Police intelligence estimates that one in ten shootings involves a reactivated weapon. Deactivated weapons can be bought legally in Britain without a firearms certificate and many are bought over the internet.

David Davis, the Shadow Home Secretary, said that deactivated weapons accounted for a tiny proportion of gun crime. There were four recorded offences in England and Wales in 2005-06 in which a deactivated firearm was used and a further four involving reactivated weapons, out of a total of 21,521 recorded incidents.

Mr Davis said: “While we welcome any action, however overdue it may be, to tackle the scourge of gun crime the Government’s own figures show that in 2005-06 there were only eight incidents where deactivated or reactivated weapons were used – just 0.04 per cent of gun offences.

“We need sustained action to tackle the other 99.96 per cent of this serious problem.” The Home Secretary met the parents of Rhys Jones yesterday as police carried out dawn raids across Liverpool to round up members of gangs linked to the teenager’s unsolved murder. Merseyside Police targeted the homes of members of the rival Croxteth Crew and Strand gangs before Ms Smith’s visit to the city.