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Shukokai guy
2nd June 2008, 21:00
I recently read in a blurb for a book about Bruce Tegner's involvement with Tani-Ha Shito Ryu Karate. So out of curiosity I bought the book 'Complete Book of Karate' and to be honest after having done Shukokai Karate (aka Tani-Ha Shito Ryu) for over thirty years I was hard pushed to find the connection. The pictures do not show any of the bodyline associated with the style. In fact it looks more like Shotokan and bad Shotokan to boot.

But in the interest of knowledge I ask those of you out there across the pond, do you know if Bruce Tegner ever ventured to the dojo of Chojiro Tani in Kobe, Japan? I personally suspect not. I think he had a Judo/Jujutsu background and 'fudged' the rest. But I would be happy to be corrected.

Hope you can help

Cheers

Gil Ross

elder999
2nd June 2008, 22:15
Jukado1 (http://www.e-budo.com/forum/member.php?u=9664) was a student of Mr. Tegner; you might try pm'ing him....

Simon Keegan
3rd June 2008, 15:53
We must remember that just as in the early 1900s Judo and Jujutsu were often blurred in England, in the late 1950s/early 60s Karate was a very vague commodity.

Vernon Bell introduced Karate to England, as he started teaching Karate in his mum's back garden in 1956 (as he himself was a newcomer to the art, making occasional trips to France to train with Henri Plee). This was training only available to people in the Essex area so further afield, nobody really knew what Karate was.

In the book Shotokan Dawn, Bell recalls that after this point many who had previously been Judo teachers with no Karate training (even his own teacher Kenshiro Abbe) started branding their Atemi (or more often wood-breaking demos) as "Karate".

It was Vernon Bell's senior student Terry Wingrove who first taught Shukokai (which he studied under Tani) to this country. I don't know if Tegner was among the people who attended his courses.

I suppose the other possibility is that it refers to Yukio Tani's Judo/Jujutsu tuition which was the basis for a high percentage of English Jujutsu and he saw the Atemi as Karate.

Shukokai guy
4th June 2008, 13:02
It was Vernon Bell's senior student Terry Wingrove who first taught Shukokai (which he studied under Tani) to this country. I don't know if Tegner was among the people who attended his courses.

:nono: Just to get the facts straight.

Tommy Morris from Glasgow was the first man to introduce Shukokai in the UK. He graded Shodan in 1965 under Yoshinao Nanbu (later of Sankukai/Nanbudo fame) at his dojo in Glasgow before later going to the Tani dojo in Kobe (with Yoshinao Nanbu) in 1967 where he graded to Sandan. On his return he was the subject of a rather good article in the now defunct UK magazine Karate & Oriental Arts detailing his journey.

http://www.worldkarate.net/More%20About%20Us.shtml

Although Terry Wingrove did train in Shukokai he did not however, enter the Tani dojo until 1967.

http://www.shuriway.co.uk/wingrove.html

It therefore seems very unlikely that Bruce Tegner would have been an attendee at any UK courses seeing as he was a Hollywood, Los Angeles resident.

I admit Terry Wingrove is very well respected as a Budoka in the UK and internationally but please don't add false lustre.

Cheers

Simon Keegan
4th June 2008, 20:45
Yes, I was wrong (that'll teach me for working from memory).
Apologies

Shukokai guy
4th June 2008, 20:52
No worries. Thanks for taking the time to reply

Shukokai guy
11th June 2008, 13:06
It appears the Karate ranking was an honourary 5th dan in Tani Ha Shito Ryu from Tani's Shukokai. He apparently severed ties with them after a year as he did not like being told what to do :look:

Another example of "Thanks for everything.........now I'm off!" Obviously he ommitted to give the rank back. :smilejapa

jukado1
17th June 2008, 17:45
Re the statement on Bruce Tegner's 5Th Dan in karate, 1ST, Bruce did not ask the Shukokai, for a rank, They came to him asking him to represent them in the U.S. Then they sent a small group over to test him in his school in Hollywood, Calif. And this is not hearsay, I was there for his test, I was a student of his from 1959 till he closed his school in 1967, And saw him once or twice a year until his death in 1985, Bruce, While not in a full training mode, Did pass all of the test, While his basic karate knowledge was not exactly the same as what the Shukokai was showing it was fairly close, Bruce was awarded rank to help the Shukokai become a major organization in the U.S. But after a year or so they tried to dictate what Bruce could and could not teach and he disaffiliated himself from them.
Thanks for your time.