View Full Version : SCARS and koryu jujutsu

Stéphan Thériault
27th January 2001, 03:25
Ok, first off I've never trained in jujutsu. But from things I've read, including on e-budo, there seems to be some similaritties between scars and koryu jujutsu. In the article below, the author talks about how in scars you do not block, but rather move off the line of attack. At the same time striking "nerve centers" to ellicit certain responses from the opponent. This sets up the opponent for throws, locks, ect. Now this sounds alot like the discusion of atemi going on in the Atemi thread, of the aikijujutsu section. So I was hopping to get the oppinion of some practionners of koryu jujutsu.


[Edited by Stéphan Thériault on 01-26-2001 at 10:32 PM]

Neil Hawkins
28th January 2001, 21:57
Sorry Stéphan, I can't really help as I know little about the SCARS system. However, jujutsu does form the basis of many combat styles, even if they don't know it now. Much of the stuff taught during WWII was jujutsu based and was refined over time. I would say that this is where the links originated.


Meynard Ancheta
29th January 2001, 15:29
SCARS originated from Kung Fu San Soo. It has nothing to do with Japanese Koryu Bu Jitsu. If you've ever seen green belt level Kung Fu San Soo you will find that the techniques are virtually identical.

30th January 2001, 08:47

Now this is very familiar to me. It is an escape from a rear hadaka jime, or naked strangle. The escape is simple enough. The one being choked, both by the neck and the body (dojime) will put his legs over the feet of the attacker which will "turn" the feet around so they are facing backwards, or are broken. Most aren't that limber, but I've seen this picture somewhere before, but not this particular sequence.

These are from Jeff Cook's website http://www.wabujitsu.com so take a look. I think this may be a chicken before the egg, or indeed, these both came from BJJ and probably the same school. The above are copyright Jeff Cook and Wabujitsu. The top picture is from http://www.fightingarts.com , which is no doubt has copyright, but the similarity is striking. I've done this escape, and the legs over feet technique is quite painful.


30th January 2001, 08:50
BTW: I am not too familiar with the SCARS techniques, but this one is definitely jujutsu, or wabujitsu.


Meynard Ancheta
30th January 2001, 15:40

Groundfighting or fighting on the ground is a new addition to SCARS. However, they do not wrestle around as per BJJ or Judo Ne Waza. The guys at SCARS obviously understand the value of being able to fight on the ground, so they added some anti-grappling techniques. Just because you saw a rear control with hooks a la rear naked choke doesn't mean SCARS originated from Jiu Jitsu. I'm sure some of it has Jiu Jitsu technique, but SCARS is not founded on Jiu Jitsu; it is more like Kung Fu San Soo.

Neil Hawkins
30th January 2001, 22:33
Perhaps you could give us a little background on Kung Fu San Soo and hos SCARS originated.



Meynard Ancheta
30th January 2001, 23:57
I saw a SCARS trainer tape a couple years back and i thought it looked liked it originated from Jiu Jitsu. I asked around about it and finally decided to call the SCARS institute and asked them what was the base martial art that SCARS came from. The lady on the phone said that Jerry Peterson's early training was in Kung Fu San Soo. San Soo would be the basis of SCARS. Obviously Peterson did a lot of martial research afterwards and put together something of his own creation and was able to teach it for the Navy Seals. I've seen some more Kung Fu San Soo techniques since then and when I compare it the trainer video that I now have I see that they have the same techniques, exactly.

31st January 2001, 08:50
Hi, Meynard,
Actually, I was only referring to the one picture. Although it can't be seen, the position before the legs wrapped around the attacker feet to spread them, is nearly identical. If you look at the photo taken from the Fighting Arts website, and look at the sequence of the picures below from Cook's site, it is precisely the same escape maneuver from a rear arm (naked strangle) choke.

I've heard of SCARS but know next to nothing about it. The comment about BJJ/jujutsu is simply because of the similarity.

No matter what the base art is, Mr. Cook does have some background in chinese arts, not to mention judo, gendai jujutsu, and aikido.

So yes, I echo Neil's question regarding San Soo.


Meynard Ancheta
31st January 2001, 15:50
Mark and Neil,

I'm not an expert in Kung Fu San Soo either, but from what I know;a man named Jimmy Woo introduced it to the public around 1962 or so by opening up a school in El Monte,CA. The art had its origins in China and had a base in Choy Li Fut Kung Fu. Apparently Jimmy Woo learned it from his uncle. From what I understand Jimmy Woo added elements from other martial arts to what he already knew from Choy Li Fut and called it Kung Fu San Soo. I think San Soo or San Shou is the practical applications/combative aspect of Choy Li Fut, however I'm not sure since I can't quite remember. According to the history of San Soo provided in http://www.kungfusansoo.com, Jimmy Woo migrated to the USA in 1935 and did not open a formal school until 1962. His uncle died in 1942. So I guess between 1935 and 1962 there was a lot of opportunity for Jimmy Woo to pick up elements of other martial arts and add it to an already good base of knowledge that came from Choy Li Fut.

Jeff Cook
31st January 2001, 19:03
Hey guys,

Mark, thanks for the plug! Glad you liked the technique. I know I have said it before, but more to come.

I think what is important here is to not worry about the derivation of any given technique, but to understand that combative principles are universal. We all do the same techniques in different systems, simply because they make good sense!

Jeff Cook

1st February 2001, 07:46
Hi, Meynard,
Thanks for the information on Kung fu San Soo. I will take a further look at the web link you listed.

Well, Yes, you're righ, of course. I did think the move with the legs when in that position (dojime?) worked really well. I also agree things have a way of getting around. I only do judo, but I've managed to work in other techniques now and then. You can't help it. Use what works.:)