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Kobudoka-NRW
12th May 2009, 22:07
Hello,

I need some Information of Matayoshi Kobudo.

Can anybody help me?

I need info about:
- the travels of Shinko Matayoshi
- the Kawasaki years of Shinpo Matayoshi (1938-1960)
- the Higa Seiko years of Shinpo Matayoshi (1960-1966) - Connection with Taira Shinken

Best Regards
Michael Steffens

tgall
24th May 2009, 11:26
Hi,

interesting question. Did you allready find anything out about it? Would also like to hear about that.


Sincerely

Thomas Mayer-Gall

Kobudoka-NRW
27th May 2009, 07:08
Hello,

I find informationen of Shinko Matayoshi travels in the book of Mark Bishop. He wrote that Matayoshi had a demonstration in 1915 (Tokyo) together with Funakoshi Sensei.

About the Kawasaki years I have no informationen. But I think it was a hard time in Japan (Second World War).

1960 Matayoshi Shinpo came back from Kawasaki and train in the Dojo of Higa Seiko. The same Dojo Taira Shinken also train Kobudo.

Best Regards
Michael Steffens

Shikiyanaka
11th July 2009, 19:33
Hello,

I need some Information of Matayoshi Kobudo.

Can anybody help me?

I need info about:
- the travels of Shinko Matayoshi
"He listened to the talks and stories about Bujutsu in China. In spring 1904 his friend Go Kenki (Japanese name: Yoshikawa Kenki, an expert of Shaolin Tsuru-ken), who ran a tea shop in Naha-shi, motivated him to go to Sachalin, Manchuria, Shanghai, Annam and Fuzhou. At this time Shinkō Okina was 17 years old.
In Manchuria he lived together with bazoku (mounted bandits/rebels) and made a living from hunting, during which he learned to use the Suruchin, the throwing art of Shuriken-jutsu and went through a general martial way of live.
In Fuzhou the house of the parents of Go Kenki (in Fujian, Fuzhou-city, Minamidai Suifukan this-and-that-street or -district) became the center and beginning of the activities, where he was taught by [Go Kenki’s] father Go Kōki in Fujian Shōrin-ken, and than Go Kōki introduced him to his life-long master, Kingai Rōshi [„old master “ Kingai] (Shū Shiwa’s older student).
The teaching of Kingai Rōshi was very strict. The secret of the Bujutsu of the family tadition is, that is is done mutually. Concerning the exact origin: father and grandfather have been taught Kenpō and were very capable of it. The Kenpō was tiger- (tora) and crane (tsuru)–style, with the Kenpō of Sanchin as its core, and the Fujian Shōrin-ken Kata Seisan-ho, Gojūshi-ho, Gojushichi-ho and Bunkai-training.
The Gokui (the secret principle; innermost core) of Rōshin’s teaching was the „Hit-Person-Method“."

I took and interpreted this from a memorial booklet called "KO MATAYOSHI SHINPŌ TSUITŌ. Matayoshi Kobudō Tōde-dō Kokusai Enbu Taikai." It's quite interesting.



- the Kawasaki years of Shinpo Matayoshi (1938-1960)

In the memorial booklet mentioned above there's only one mention of Kawasaki:
"1957: In the city of Kawasaki, Prefecture, he taught Okinawa Kobudō."
Next entry is for 1960, back in Okinawa:
"1960: he teaches Kobudō MAINLY in the Dōjō of the Gōjū-ryū stylist Higa Seikō.


- the Higa Seiko years of Shinpo Matayoshi (1960-1966) - Connection with Taira Shinken
There are some pictures of Matayoshi together with Taira, Higa Seiko, Fukuchi, Higa Yuchoku and others.
Did Matayoshi learn Shushi no kun Dai from Taira and incorporated it in his Kobudo? I don't remember where I got this from. At least there is no Shushi no Kun Sho in Matayoshi Kobudo, no?.

Kobudoka-NRW
12th July 2009, 15:24
"He listened to the talks and stories about Bujutsu in China. In spring 1904 his friend Go Kenki (Japanese name: Yoshikawa Kenki, an expert of Shaolin Tsuru-ken), who ran a tea shop in Naha-shi, motivated him to go to Sachalin, Manchuria, Shanghai, Annam and Fuzhou. At this time Shinkō Okina was 17 years old.
In Manchuria he lived together with bazoku (mounted bandits/rebels) and made a living from hunting, during which he learned to use the Suruchin, the throwing art of Shuriken-jutsu and went through a general martial way of live.
In Fuzhou the house of the parents of Go Kenki (in Fujian, Fuzhou-city, Minamidai Suifukan this-and-that-street or -district) became the center and beginning of the activities, where he was taught by [Go Kenki’s] father Go Kōki in Fujian Shōrin-ken, and than Go Kōki introduced him to his life-long master, Kingai Rōshi [„old master “ Kingai] (Shū Shiwa’s older student).
The teaching of Kingai Rōshi was very strict. The secret of the Bujutsu of the family tadition is, that is is done mutually. Concerning the exact origin: father and grandfather have been taught Kenpō and were very capable of it. The Kenpō was tiger- (tora) and crane (tsuru)–style, with the Kenpō of Sanchin as its core, and the Fujian Shōrin-ken Kata Seisan-ho, Gojūshi-ho, Gojushichi-ho and Bunkai-training.
The Gokui (the secret principle; innermost core) of Rōshin’s teaching was the „Hit-Person-Method“."

I took and interpreted this from a memorial booklet called "KO MATAYOSHI SHINPŌ TSUITŌ. Matayoshi Kobudō Tōde-dō Kokusai Enbu Taikai." It's quite interesting.

Dear Shikiyanaka,

Thank's for the information.

It's quite interesting.

Many historian give the date 1912 of Go Kenki`s arrive (Tokashiki Iken, Tetsuhiro Hokama). And this sources said that Matayoshi travell first time 1910 or 1911. After a few years (5-7 years) he came back to Japan. He married 1920 and his son was born 1921 (Shinpo Matayoshi).

Best Regards
Michael Steffens

Shikiyanaka
13th July 2009, 11:01
Sometimes even the best reference books contain errors, typos, slips of the pen/keyboard.
I remember when I prepared for testing as a certified engineer in mechanical engineering: we had a quite complicated case including a lot of maths which was once officially approved by the ministry of education as an examination question for the final written examination - a four day long struggle by the way - ; and it turned out to have had a logical error.
From that time on I always reminded myself of the fact that any book or whatever reference work may contain errors.
Especially in Ryukyu Karate Kobudo history there is so much inconsistency concernig dates, it's really a cross to bear. And internet is a platform for copy-and-paste specialists who just take this and that and put it together, thus often spreading unconfirmed factoids.

To be sure, you should just walk over to the Naha harbour archives and look up the passenger lists of from 1904 to 1912. ;) That would be meritoriousness :O)

Did you ever try archive work here in Germany??? It's really no fun and bears no fruits unless you really know the rules.

In the end, it's possible that I made a mistake in the translation and got the date wrong; you know, I always struggle when it comes to converting Japanese/Chinese years to our system. But the book also says "at the time he was 17 years old," so that would fit.

In the end its also possible that Go Kenki visited Okinawa before he finally emigrated. Maybe he worked as a merchant between China and Okinawa before, and only later decided to relocate to Okinawa? This question I guess has naver been raised, though it remains possible.

Meanwhile you may tell me where Hokama (Book, edition, page) and Tokashiki exactly wrote it, best would be a complete citation, so I may check this back also.

Shikiyanaka
13th July 2009, 11:03
Sometimes even the best reference books contain errors, typos, slips of the pen/keyboard.
I remember when I prepared for testing as a certified engineer in mechanical engineering: we had a quite complicated case including a lot of maths which was once officially approved by the ministry of education as an examination question for the final written examination - a four day long struggle by the way - ; and it turned out to have had a logical error.
From that time on I always reminded myself of the fact that any book or whatever reference work may contain errors.

Especially in Ryukyu Karate Kobudo history there is so much inconsistency concernig dates, it's really a cross to bear. And internet is a platform for copy-and-paste specialists who just take this and that and put it together, thus often spreading unconfirmed factoids.

To be sure, you should just walk over to the Naha harbour archives and look up the passenger lists of from 1904 to 1912. ;) That would be meritoriousness :O)

Did you ever try archive work here in Germany??? It's really no fun and bears no fruits unless you really know the rules.

In the end, it's possible that I made a mistake in the translation and got the date wrong; you know, I always struggle when it comes to converting Japanese/Chinese years to our system. But the book also says "at the time he was 17 years old," so that would fit.

In the end its also possible that Go Kenki visited Okinawa before he finally emigrated. Maybe he worked as a merchant between China and Okinawa before, and only later decided to relocate to Okinawa? This question I guess has never been raised, though it remains possible.

Meanwhile you may tell me where Hokama (Book, edition, page) and Tokashiki exactly wrote it, best would be a complete citation, so I may check this back also. I just hope you did not just find it somewhere on the internet?

Kobudoka-NRW
13th July 2009, 14:35
Meanwhile you may tell me where Hokama (Book, edition, page) and Tokashiki exactly wrote it, best would be a complete citation, so I may check this back also. I just hope you did not just find it somewhere on the internet?

Dear Shikiyanaka,

by Tetsuhiro Hokama:
The book title is "100 Masters of Okinawan Karate" (transl. Joe Swift). Page 34.

By Tokashiki Iken:
Dragon Times No. 20 - Mario McKenna: "Wu Xianhui and Tang Daiji - Pioneers of Okinawan Karate". Page 14. Mr. McKenna Reference of T. Iken is "Bujin Go Kenki to To Daiki no Issho (The Lives of the Martial Artists Go Kenki and To Daiki)" - Okinawa Times - Naha - 1995.

Best Regards
Michael Steffens

Shikiyanaka
28th August 2009, 14:30
Ok, I don't have a clue what's right or not. :O)

Katsujinken
20th September 2009, 22:10
"1957: In the city of Kawasaki, Prefecture, he taught Okinawa Kobudō."
That would be at Kanki Izumikawa's Dojo. The Dojo was opened in 1937 teaching Seiko Higa's Senbukan Goju. Shinko Matayoshi lived in Kawasaki in the 1940's and taught at the Izumikawa Dojo.

Regards

KaikanDojo
21st September 2009, 21:45
FYI - there is a good article in the online Meibukan Magazine about Matayoshi Kobudo: Matayoshi Kobudo – A Brief History and Overview by Frederick W. Lohse III, Meibukan Magazine, September 2007.

http://www.meibukanmagazine.org/Downloads/MeibukanMagazineno9.pdf

Cheers,
Jarret Cooper