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View Full Version : Importance of Yama Meguri - Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu



Bhaktadev
24th February 2019, 13:15
I'm interested in people's perspective on the technique called Yama Meguri in Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu. In Sugino Yoshio Sensei's book it's to invite an attack from the opponent, and then counter with an attack of your own. What I find peculiar is that it's rather frequent in the first three kata, which suggests to me it must be an important technique. Comparatively, Okkachi is done in three of four Omote Tachi kata, but I can understand why. Okkachi is a difficult technique, but very powerful. However, I don't understand what the power of Yama Meguri is yet.

So my question is, why do you think it's so frequent, why is it so important, and of course, what is it I'm not getting? I do have a very great sensei who I will ask, I'm just curious about what people think about it, and maybe there's some historical sources I'm unaware of.

For people who don't know what Yama Meguri is, it's the spinning move at 10:40 https://youtu.be/3NbOfLwWjAk
Do other schools also have this technique? I've only seen it in TSKSR, but maybe other schools have something similar that can give me a perspective on the idea behind the technique.

Bhaktadev
5th March 2019, 15:03
I also have a similar question about Sasa-gakure no Kamae, btw. What's up with that one? I've seen similar stances in many Chinese martial arts. What is the benefit of putting your hand out in front of you in a sword fight?

pgsmith
5th March 2019, 18:26
Hey Mathias,
I am not a practitioner of TSKSR, so I can't comment directly on your question. However, I do want to point out that the kata in the koryu that I am familiar with are not designed to teach particular techniques, but to ingrain certain postures and movements into unconscious muscle memory. This is why many of them don't make a lot of tactical sense (why would someone do that in that situation?). It is also why they tend to change in small ways over time as the hanshi decides to work more on particular movements.

So, perhaps there is a possible underlying movement or motion that is inherent in the movement done in those kata?

Just a thought.

B.Finn
10th March 2019, 08:59
I am a practitioner of TSKSR, so I can't comment directly on your question. I'd say Paul's response above is very insightful. For elaboration I think you should ask your teacher. Also further research may reveal more. There are aspects of esoteric Buddhism that appear in the training, as well as tactical considerations.

AFA Yamameguri, it's an interesting one, that's for sure. I've heard a number of 'explanations'. But my teacher's is the final word on the topic.

Cron
10th March 2019, 12:26
Two things:

If you are a member of the school: Ask you teacher.
If you are not a member of the school, all what is openly available can be found in the Budo Kyohan.

To make it simple: Im pretty sure that you will not find your answers here.

If you like to know more about Sasagakure, check out Dr. Halls work on Marishiten.

Bhaktadev
14th March 2019, 17:35
Two things:

If you are a member of the school: Ask you teacher.
If you are not a member of the school, all what is openly available can be found in the Budo Kyohan.

To make it simple: I´m pretty sure that you will not find your answers here.

If you like to know more about Sasagakure, check out Dr. Halls work on Marishiten.

Thanks for your reply. Especially the part about Marishiten.
Yes, I am a member. We've met :)
I already know all the basic explanations, and I'm going to ask my teachers as soon as I remember to do so. My purpose of this thread was hopefully to get people's thoughts on the subject, and maybe even some from other schools as well. I'm well aware that other schools will probably not apply to TSKSR, but I'm a curious person and enjoy conversations about Koryu.

I know you study at Sugino dojo, so if I can ask you a question, have you been taught anything about Yama Meguri that's not already in the Budo Kyohan? It's ok if you can't tell me exactly what, I'm satisfied with a simple yes or no.

Bhaktadev
14th March 2019, 18:14
So, perhaps there is a possible underlying movement or motion that is inherent in the movement done in those kata?

Just a thought.
Yes, I've had that thought. What you mention has been my belief about martial arts for a long time. Even from just what's public on youtube, it's clear that Koryu (and most Gendai Budo as well) tend to repeat certain footwork or movements, presumably to establish a certain habit. From what I gather from various historical and martial sources, each school seem to focus on a certain strategy to ensure victory, and the prevalent strategies changed over the centuries as circumstances changed.

Most martial arts also practice certain combinations simply because it works against a majority of people, which makes it very useful. Maybe Yama Meguri was useful because at the time, people would just walk right into it and get cut. I also know certain schools like, Yagyu Shinkage Ryu, developed techniques specifically to counter those of TSKSR, which suggests to me that those techniques had been a problem for many people.

Cron
15th March 2019, 00:21
Thanks for your reply. Especially the part about Marishiten.
Yes, I am a member. We've met :)
I already know all the basic explanations, and I'm going to ask my teachers as soon as I remember to do so. My purpose of this thread was hopefully to get people's thoughts on the subject, and maybe even some from other schools as well. I'm well aware that other schools will probably not apply to TSKSR, but I'm a curious person and enjoy conversations about Koryu.

I know you study at Sugino dojo, so if I can ask you a question, have you been taught anything about Yama Meguri that's not already in the Budo Kyohan? It's ok if you can't tell me exactly what, I'm satisfied with a simple yes or no.

Ha! I knew that name sounded somehow familiar ;)
Shoot me a PM and we can discuss this in private...