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dakotajudo
30th May 2001, 23:14
I was going to post this in the leg-lock thread, but figured it was time to start another.

Aikidoka is the commonly used term for a person who practices aikido, and there is little play there.

On the other hand, I've heard several instructors translate randori as "free play", emaphsis on play (not sure I agree, but...).

A person who wrestles is a wrestler, but judo-er doesn't sound right and I have to translate judoka to laymen, so for better or worse I tend to use judo player.

Of course, my favorite is "judo man". As in "I'm a judo man".

Peter

Meik Skoss
31st May 2001, 01:05
Why not "judoist" as an alternative? I've seen that locution often enough. Personally, though, I prefer judoka.

People in my dojo do use the term "judo player," but that grates. One "plays" games like baseball or basketball. But judo is not a game, one "does" or "studies" it (I'm translating from Japanese).

In English, too, combative sports are done or practised or we use the nouns as verbs; thus, one wrestles, fences or boxes, shoots (bows or guns) or practises marksmanship.

Hope this helps.

MarkF
31st May 2001, 06:24
I think circumstances control what we do and how we do it, not to mention what we are. I've heard and seen aikidoist as much as aikidoka and it really doesn't make that much of a difference. Judoist I've heard and used, as well, but I use judoka the most amongst judoka.

Judo player doesn't bother me at all, but I've never heard "free play" for randori. "Free practice" is the term I've always used, so I would tend to agree with Meik, but judo player is fine as far as I am concerned, anyway.

There are different types of randori so we can muddle through these if you like.

But when engaged in free, but fully resistant randori, it is NOT play, it is training. Same with shiai.

Mark

BTW: Go amongst the fighters and the koryu, and use the term "player." If anything, it does open things up a bit.:)

Ben Reinhardt
31st May 2001, 16:44
So, is the distinction that was noted to me by a correspondent on the Judo L (between Judoka and Judoshi) a legitimate one ? Mr. Skoss, you are fluent in Japanese ? Ever hear of it ?

Personally, being called a Judo Player, Judoka, Judoist, does't really matter to me, as I know what Judo means to me.

Regards,

Ben Reinhardt

Meik Skoss
31st May 2001, 16:58
The term "judoshi" is not one I've encountered before. I gather the "-shi" in the term is the one used in "kenshi," a character that means, in Japanese, "warrior" or "one who..." in modern usage. A Chinese would probably see the character and think "gentleman" or "scholar," but that just shows how the written languages have come to differ.

In any event, I've never seen that particular character for "-shi" used for anything but a man who does kendo (or kenjutsu). All of the other arts nowadays append "-ka" (lit. "house[hold]," it infers "a man who is skilled in..."). In older contexts, "-sha" ("one who") is seen, thus "bugeisha" "ninja" [read differently, "shinobimono"], "musha" and the like.

Hope this helps.

Ben Reinhardt
31st May 2001, 17:07
Originally posted by Meik Skoss
The term "judoshi" is not one I've encountered before. I gather the "-shi" in the term is the one used in "kenshi," a character that means, in Japanese, "warrior" or "one who..." in modern usage. A Chinese would probably see the character and think "gentleman" or "scholar," but that just shows how the written languages have come to differ.

In any event, I've never seen that particular character for "-shi" used for anything but a man who does kendo (or kenjutsu). All of the other arts nowadays append "-ka" (lit. "house[hold]," it infers "a man who is skilled in..."). In older contexts, "-sha" ("one who") is seen, thus "bugeisha" "ninja" [read differently, "shinobimono"], "musha" and the like.

Hope this helps.

Yes, that helps a lot. I see that the other persons translation of -ka was a bit off base. Looks to me like Judoka is not as demeaning as implied.

Thanks,

Ben Reinhardt