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Thread: Sho Sho ryu jujutsu

  1. #1
    Dan Harden Guest

    Default Sho Sho ryu jujutsu

    Anybody ever hear of this one?
    An Okamura or Takehashi as sensei of it? I saw some paperwork signed by a 16th headmaster of the school and a separate shihan -so it purports to be koryu.
    The American learning it thought he was learning DR. Although that could be his own assumption.

    Thanks
    Dan

  2. #2
    Kit LeBlanc Guest

    Default Serge Mol's Book

    Dan,

    It's described in Serge Mol's book on Koryu Jujutsu, which is gleaned from popular Japanese sources. School teaching apparently say it descended from the Heian era...the present headmaster claims to be 68th generation.

    Seems the put a lot of emphasis on atemi, especially kicks and elbows. Their idea of ukemi is something like rolling out so that you can kick the thrower in the chin. Sounds pretty cool, actually. They have nawa jutsu and wear armor padding when practicing atemi, too, it seems, from an article I have seen.

    Budokan has a video on it.

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    Question

    68th generation????? isn't that number a bit high??
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

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    Takahashi Atsuyoshi is the current head of Shosho ryu, which is based in Morioka city in Iwate prefecture. He is listed as the 68th generation head of the ryu. While one could assume alot of those earlier generations probably have strong leanings towards the "densetsu" side of things, the school does have tracable roots at least back into the Edo period (if not further) and is a member of the Nihon Kobudo Kyokai. Its is very well known in the Tohoku area and if you mention jujutsu up in the Iwate/Aomori/Akita area, Shosho ryu will probably be one of the first schools mentioned. I haven't actually seen it in action, but pretty much everyone I have talked with has spoken highly of it. It seems to be known as being a pretty rough and tumble type of school as far as jujutsu schools go. They also use a number of various pads in training so atemi and such and be practiced at full strength. The fullest set of gear I have seen them wearing in pictures reminded me of a baseball catcher and I believe they even do tanto thrusts into the chest pads (wouldn't want to miss in that kind of training). If you have the Nihon Kobudo Soran there is a picture with one of the guys wearing the big chest pad on page 35.

    Best Regards,
    Rennis Buchner

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    I still think the number is a bit high...

    let's make it simple.... let's say that each generation lasts 50 years....

    50 x 68 = 3400 so it started around 1398 BC ??
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

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    I still think the number is a bit high... let's make it simple.... let's say that each generation lasts 50 years.... 50 x 68 = 3400 so it started around 1398 BC ??

    Again, I can't really comment on Shosho ryu's numbers, but the methods of transmission between ryu can vary greatly. Alot of schools "count" via generations of teachers. So Nakanantoka sensei trains Takadareka and he gets menkyo kaiden in say 10 years (remember in the old days it didn't always take so long either), he becomes the 2nd, he trains Yoshianohito and he becomes the 3rd upon recieving menkyo kaiden in 8 years... etc etc... If you follow that method your 68 would only take 680 years or so. Shosho ryu isn't the only ryu that has its soke way up in the high numbers. Kashima Shinto ryu was on 65 last I checked. Lineages get long when you trance them back to the age of the Gods, or Heian period warriors, etc. Also some lineages like that have gaps in them as well (even Daito ryu's claimed lineage has gaps). I can't tell you how Shosho ryu's works, but every book I checked in has Takahashi listed as 68 according to their tradition that's what he is.

    Best Regards,
    Rennis Buchner

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    Technically speaking, a generation is the span of time it takes for one group to grow up and replace itself with offspring. So, a generation could mean as few as 18 years (or even younger, if you produce a child in your teens). But 25 years is considered the average generational span. Try calculating based on that.
    Cady Goldfield

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    Hullo,

    I have seen the Shosho Ryu tape. They are a sogo bujutsu and on the tape demonstrate naginata, hanbo, koshinomawari, hojo, yawara, etc. The have a kind of supported kendo do and practice their kicks and strikes against that. When using kogusoku they will strike the do with the hilt. They also wear gloves when doing koshinomawari. They have touritsu ukemi and the 'chin-kick' ukemi of many other Sengoku period arts. Although I have never seen them live, or felt their techniques, I have a good impression of them from what I have heard and what I saw on the tape.

    As for the generation thing, once ryu get away from SOKE and move into DAI, I have seen up to three DAI living at the same time (i.e. 18th, 19th, 20th, generations practice together).

    CK

  9. #9
    Dan Harden Guest

    Default

    Thanks Guys

    I did find it in Serg's Book Kit (much of my suff is packed away due to house renovation)

    Thanks again Rennis Nice having you hangng in the wings.

    You know, here we are in the Peoples Democratic republic of Massachussetts-bastion of all that is liberal-and I manage to find legitimate TSKSR, Daito ryu, and now Sho-Sho ryu. As a state we do attract business and academics. Not to mention the Boston Museum of fine arts excellent collection or Japanese arms and armors and the Higgens armory rght down the street. What a lucky guy.

    Cheers
    Dan

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    there is an exponent of this art in The Netherlands;the founder of the Shin Tai Ryu-ha http://www.shintairyu.nl/ I would love to check his dojo and skills,but it is quite a ride to visit for an hour or so.

    This guy published some in-depth and interesting books on jujutsu as well.
    Thomas Ossel

    Daito ryu aikijujutsu roppokai

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    I am not sure if he teaches Shosho ryu - I think Shintai ryu-ha is his own school and indeed he has published books on jujutsu, quite a few I think.

    best,

    Johan Smits

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    Shoshô-ryû (jû/yawara, kogusoku, ken, nawa) is listed on page 378 in the Bugei Ryûha Daijiten. I count 42 generations listed in the lineage provided, its late so i could be off by 1 or 2. Glancing at the text seems it has influences from Sekiguchi-ryû and others.

    Maybe someone can translate it as I'm working on other things.
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

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    I wouldn't worry about the 68 generations. Usually, such schools have a "chuko no so" somewhere in the lineage if you look - the person who actually founded it. I saw the ryu quite a bit in the 70's and 80's. The headmaster at the time was 'renowned' among the foreign practiitoners for having the only true bowl haircut any of us had ever seen. The school is linked with Muhen-ryu, a school which focusses on bojutsu and naginatajutsu (the kata largely overlap). I've got a picture of Muhen-ryu naginatajutsu on page 183 of Old School if anyone is curious. I think that the instructor (she had the most incredible forearms!!!) may have also done Shosho-ryu, but she demonstrated the staff weapons. The Shosho-ryu was quite rugged - real country stuff. Not all that subtle, but you'd be fighting an armed farmer, stinking of manure and 14 hour workdays in rice-field muck up to their knees. Different kind of toughness.
    I may be wrong - but I remember they had this show-stopper move (a lot of the "country" schools had a crowd pleaser demo technique) which was, if I remember a complete 360 flip onto one's feet from a tomoenage (yeah nage let go, but it was fun).

    Best

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    Is that the group that has the uke wear a baseball catcher's mask (I think that's what it is)? The Tori strikes the mask with a shuto while wearing a glove?

    I also remember the front flip (zenpo tenkai) escape.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    Quote Originally Posted by johan smits
    I am not sure if he teaches Shosho ryu - I think Shintai ryu-ha is his own school and indeed he has published books on jujutsu, quite a few I think.

    best,

    Johan Smits
    I read several of his books,and it is also stated on the shin tai ryu-webpages;the shin Tai Ryu is indeed his own school,but apart from that he's also a teacher of Shosho-ryu,so he teaches different things.

    i recall that one of the students of the STR,became eligible for master-ranking in Shosho-ryu,and Takahashi was there.
    Thomas Ossel

    Daito ryu aikijujutsu roppokai

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