Posted by Stanley Pranin, 07-11-2000:
I spoke with Kondo Sensei today on the telephone about some of the subjects covered in the numerous threads regarding the Seishinkan of Abashiri and the issue of succession in Daito-ryu.
As our conversation was starting to become quite involved, Kondo Sensei suggested that I write down questions that I and others have and he would produce a written response so that a record would remain. If any of you have questions you would like me to ask Kondo Sensei related specifically to these issues, please post them as replies below.
Please stay on topic and be sure to update yourselves by reading the threads on this site and also on the bulletin board of the Seishin group at [dead link]. Please keep your questions brief. I'd like to compile the list within the next 24 hours.
I'd like to make a few observations about areas I think form the crux of the issues being discussed.
- The matter of a supposed will that much of the Seishinkai argument is based on does not seem to actually exist. Various statements of Mr. Kobayashi later hinted that even if the will of Tokimune did not exist it really didn't matter because "tradition" dictates the matter of succession. Mrs. Yokoyama denies such a will of Tokimune's exists.
- The matter of the award of the Menkyo Kaiden by Tokimune Sensei to Kondo Sensei is not a matter of dispute although it has been questioned. I was personally present with Tokimune Sensei and Kondo Sensei when the subject was discussed. I will later provide a first-hand witness account of what took place in 1988.
Let me add the following in this connection. Only two menkyo kaiden were ever given out by Sokaku. Neither of these documents have survived. Now where do you suppose the contents of the menkyo kaiden could be obtained if not from Tokimune himself? In other words, the menkyo kaiden--in the absence of other available copies--must have come from Tokimune Sensei or else Kondo Sensei or his agent secretly stole into the Soke's house in 1988 while he was living there, photographed everything, had someone write out a bogus scroll and then published photos in Aiki News; he also stole the relevant seals of Tokimune or had them forged, placed them on the bogus copies, publicly announced his promotion and, in the process, fooled both daughters of Tokimune from noticing what he had done! Give me a break! [I'll leave aside the matter of a menkyo kaiden awarded to Kodo Horikawa since this issue is not clear]
- The explanations of why the resignation forms of Mssrs. Kato, Arisawa, and Sano are not really resignation forms strains one's credulity. This is especially the case when the form clearly has the choice of "resignation" or "withdrawal" (temporary) on its face. The claim made further is that, even if these resignations really were resignations, it was only from the dojo, and not from the art per se. One must then believe that the resignation submitted to the Daitokan dojo of Tokimune Takeda Sensei left the individuals involved still in the good graces of the acting Soke (Mrs. Yokohama) and it was understood that they were still part of the art!
- The question was already raised by one of the participants in the discussion of why the three principals (Kato, Sano, and Arisawa) of the Seishinkai were only 5th dan while Kondo Sensei received kyoju dairi, soke dairi, menkyo kaiden, and 7th dan awards from Tokimune Sensei. Remember these are supposedly the seniors closest to Tokimune having received his training for decades. How could Kondo Sensei, a younger man, who lives in Tokyo and visited the Daitokan dojo from time to time for training be so recognized while these other seniors were passed over? Food for thought.
In closing, so much has been written of an evasive nature by the Seishinkai advocates that one can really get lost in the jumble of comments offered. In the final analysis, the Seishinkai group will most likely go on calling themselves the Daito-ryu Hombu while Kondo Sensei will do the same. Decide for yourself who you believe has the best claim to lead the art in the next generation.
Stanley Pranin
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Posted by Stanley Pranin, 07-25-2000:
I have just received some 27 pages of documentation from Katsuyuki Kondo Sensei containing his answers to questions posed on this bulletin board along with supporting documentation. As the material is very extensive, I will translate it little by little as time permits. I will also post a number of scans of various documents. If there are any of you willing to assist with the translation chores, that would be most helpful.
Kondo Sensei gives background information on the circumstances of his receiving the menkyo kaiden from Tokimune Takeda Sensei, the reasons for his being granted a copyright for use of the term "Daito-ryu aikijujutsu" and similar words, how Tokimune Sensei became Soke (it was indeed official and documented proof exists!), and a number of related subjects.
We appreciate your patience. Kondo Sensei spent a tremendous amount of time in preparing this documentation and I think you'll find the contents very compelling.
As an afterthought, I asked Kondo Sensei about the "hon mokuroku" document mentioned on the Seishinkai bulletin board. He explained that Tokimune Takeda gave out a printed "hon mokuroku" to senior members of the Abashiri dojo--my guess is sometime in the 1980s--as a way of encouraging his students. This document has the names of about 90 techniques up through sankajo but is not a formal teaching certification or transmission scroll nor is it equivalent to a hiden mokuroku, the first transmission scroll level which includes 118 techniques.
A couple of relevant questions to ask the Seishin side would then be, how many people received the "hon mokuroku." (I have the impression quite a few people did, some of whom did not have high ranking.) Would the Seishinkai be willing to post a scan of the document? Does the document contain the individual names of the recipients? What was the range of ranks of those who received this document? For example, did any shodan, nidans or lower ranked people also receive this document? It would certainly be enlightening to find the answers to these questions.
Stanley Pranin
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