Likes Likes:  0
Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5
Results 61 to 71 of 71

Thread: Oshikiuchi / Gotenjutsu (Daito-ryu)

  1. #61
    Join Date
    Sep 2001
    Location
    Honolulu, Hawaii
    Posts
    455
    Likes (received)
    9

    Default Re: Re: really?

    Originally posted by Carlos Estrella
    Keep in mind that bumblebees can't fly according to science.
    That's actually a myth, as can be seen here , although the myth is probably more entertaining .

    OTOH, there are a couple of prominent Japanese researchers who claim that "nanba aruki" (where arms are moved together with the legs) was not only a common form of walking in Japan at one time, but is actually a desirable form of movement. There was a thread on just this subject a while back.

    Best,

    Chris

  2. #62
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    219
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default Re: Re: Re: really?

    Originally posted by Chris Li
    That's actually a myth, as can be seen here , although the myth is probably more entertaining .
    THANKS on setting me straight Chris! Always believed that one

    I'll review that thread, so thanks for that too... my intent in posting here (which I normally wouldn't do, was to remind folks here that IMHO, the whole idea OF Daito Ryu is to use the bodies own "design" against itself (through manipulation of body and/or mind) to acheive a desired result (control, incapacitation, etc.).

    Again, thanks!

    Carlos
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

  3. #63
    Join Date
    Mar 2002
    Location
    Baltimore md
    Posts
    7
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default

    What? umm, gosh I assure anyone reading my tone was more one of confusion and amusement at my own perplexedness (is that a word?) wow.

    Having never met nor experienced the particular arts in question, I woulden't presume to correct anyone, nor judge them. All too often the wording used to refer to a particular physical event I find so outlandishly misleading, that it almmost isn't worth putting into words. Just ask Dan and Cady about explaining things to a group of aikidoka in email.

    If there were an emodicon for blinking confusedly and trying to fit an idea into my understanding of any if not all forms of martial art (human movement) I've seen, I'd have put it there and perhaps you'd have understood there was no criticism implied.

    my appologies,

    Joel
    Joel Zimba

  4. #64
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Philadelphia, PA
    Posts
    219
    Likes (received)
    2

    Default

    Joel,

    DEFINITELY no need to apologize (to me at least)! I prefer honest questions - that's what makes this forum work. I just think that some here took your "tone" a little differently than you might have meant.

    The beauty of this forum is that it allows beginners as well as advanced practitioners and others the privilege of "questioning authority..." as long as it's done with respect for the others who may be reading, posting or responding.

    Regards,

    Carlos
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

  5. #65
    Mike B. Johnson Guest

    Default

    Hello,

    This is sort of off topic but then this thread has jumped all over the place. Earlier we were discussing the practical and impractical applications of jujutsu systems and I brought up S. Yoshin ryu's Yukio Takamura and his protege' Toby Threadgill. First I must admit to holding a bias of suspicion towards any person supposedly holding a ďmenkyo kaidenĒ in a classical jujutsu system who was not extensively trained in Japan. However, since I had attended several seminars taught by Takamura Sensei thru the years, and felt familiar with the standards of the man, I decided to give Takamura the nod on this choice of a successor, even though it was a choice "sans Japan".

    Well, as I mentioned earlier in this thread, this past Thursday evening I had the opportunity to visit Sensei Threadgillís dojo up in Evergreen,Colorado. I had corresponded with Sensei Threadgill on several subjects in the past months and found him refreshingly lucid. Concerning my visit, I must say that I was very impressed. His talents, grasp of technique and teaching method were well above the level I expected. I was specifically impressed with his swordwork. Something you don't usually see in a jujutsu dojo. Very precise. This system as it was demonstrated to me by Sensei Threadgill is stlll definitely a model of koryu jujutsu spirit with a significant infusion of modern sensibilities. Very Takamura-esque to my memory. Is it the perfect mix of both old and new? I don't think so but thatís just my opinion you understand. Takamura Yoshin ryu still suffers from a few of my pet peeves concerning kata training and the structured environment of classical dojo training. But aside from these peeves ( which I admit are totally mine to deal with) I believe the teaching in this dojo is so obviously superior to most dojo's out there that it reminds me of why I still devote so much effort to my interest in classical budo.

    And here's an addition to this tale that I think is worth mentioning on this thread. Sensei Threadgill and I eventually crossed the topic of actual fighting and his background in hard arts. I had no idea he was an old Muay Thai fighter in addition to his karate experience. One thing led to another and by the evenings end we were mixing it up on the mat, gloves on, bam bam bam, ala kickboxing. Heck, this guys a pretty decent ringfighter. Not nearly the fighters my old teachers like Tommy Thompson, Matt Waxman or Dave Slocum were, but this guy can dish out and take some good shots. And I'll be damned if he didn't throw my butt with a beautiful Osoto Gari while we were kickboxing. He also has a little surprize technique for jabs that Iíve never seen before and canít reallty describe in words. Letís just say itís very slick and painfull. This was no rout though. I got in a few of my own shots and Sensei Threadgill responded with grins and a few laughs. ( Watch those ribs sensei.) Thatís the measure of a man.

    So, if you want to talk hypothetical or get all academic about your Daito ryu or whatever ryu, thats fine and dandy, but I'd also suggest taking some hard knocks behind the 8 ball while you're at it. Itíll give your perspective a lot more validity and your mind some pain to consider. Takamura Sensei was on the right track in his methods and Iím very happy to say that Sensei Threadgill seems a fitting successor.

    And did I mention that the dojo is obscenely beautiful. Now only if I lived in Colorado I'd try to pick up some of that Yoshin ryu swordwork. You guys in Colorado are a very luck bunch.

    Good times!

    BJ

    P.S. I would also like to thank Mr Amdur. I couldnít agree more with you. I have visited so many dojoís and sensei over the years only to be disappointed. The experience up in Evergreen was a breath of fresh air on many levels.

  6. #66
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default Gyoi-dori

    There is an interesting section under the overview of Yagyu Shingan-ryu yawara in Serge Mol's "Classical Fighting Arts of Japan", pgs 178-179, on what YSgR calls "gyoi-dori" [ 御衣取り ] - literally, "grabbing the royal clothing (trappings)":

    "Gyoi-dori is mainly used to protect others, usually those higher ranking than oneself, against a batto attack (sudden sword-drawing attack). Iai-batto could be performed seated (in that case a short sword was usually used), while standing (tachiai), or while passing someone (yukiai).

    The main aim in gyoi-dori is twofold: first, to stop an attacker's batto, then to bring him under control. It is said the movements used to stop and control possible attackers inside castles or in the presence of such high-ranking officials as the shogun needed to be not only efficient, but elegant. It would be unbecoming for a high-ranked bodyguard to stop a would-be attacker in a boorish way."
    Interestingly, this concept of minimal effort/elegant techniques in front of higher-ranks in the castle is one repeated within Daito-ryu in regards to oshikiuchi. This concept is scoffed at by many who insist it would be ridiculous to worry about looking dignified when concerned with repelling a real attack, so it is interesting to see reference to this same concept in another art.

    According to one of the webpages I came across (not sure how accurate this is), YSgR is divided into four types of jujutsu - ippan yawara (commoner type yawara), ashigaru yawara (foot solider type yawara), bushi yawara (warriors type yawara), and taisho yawara (Chief/General/Hatamoto yawara). "Each type would learn different techniques as they would face different situations and have access to differing weapons. They would all learn various kicks, punches, escapes, and ways to restrain someone without seriously injuring them. The bushi and taisho systems would also learn something called gyoi dori. Which was protecting someone else, usually a higher ranked individual, from a sudden sword-drawing attack."

    It would appear from doing a quick web search that certain aikido groups (ki aikido) and Shorinji Kempo also include techniques classified as gyoi-dori.

    Serge Mol's book is not the most reliable source of information on jujutsu, but most of it appears to have been translated from Japanese books, which in and of itself makes the book interesting and of some value.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Cady Goldfield; 13th July 2014 at 19:09.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  7. #67
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default Saigo Tanomo sword find

    I was surfing some of the Daito-ryu pages and came across some new photos up on Kondo Sensei's website:

    http://www.daito-ryu.org/en/

    Three of them are of a sword given to Saigo Tanomo from the last lord of the Aizu clan, Matsudaira Katamori (1836-1893).



    This photo is of the sword smith's signature. The kanji read "Banryu" ( 蟠龍 ), which means "Coiling Dragon". The only reference I can find to this smith is a possible hit in Hawley's big book to a "Banryuken" ( 蟠龍軒 ), who worked out of Suo Province (now part of Yamaguchi Province, located at the Southern tip of the main island) ca. 1868. This smith was later known as "Morichika" starting around 1869.


    Some of the kanji are unclear, but it states the sword smith's name on the this side of the shirazaya, and sounds like a statement transferring the sword from one person to another (Matsudaira to Saigo).


    This side of the shirazaya has Saigo Tanomo's name, with a date of 1862. Kondo Sensei's webpage describes this as Saigo's signature, but I'm guessing it is the date that Matsudaira gifted the sword to Saigo.
    The sword itself is very interesting. It features a mid to long length kissaki, significant curvature, and a fairly wide blade.The design appears to be "naginata-zukuri". It is listed as a katana on Kondo Sensei's webpage, but it looks to be a single-handed length nakago. I'm guessing it's actually a longer length short sword designed for slashing techniques. A reasonable weapon for carrying indoors against unarmored opponents.

    Matsudaira Yoshiyasu passed down a large purple haori-himo to the Takeda family, which Sokaku was later given. He can be seen wearing this haori tie in some of his formal photos. Yoshiyasu's successor, Katamori, gave the above sword to Saigo some time later. Now it seems to be in the possession of Kondo Sensei.

    Regards,
    Last edited by Cady Goldfield; 13th July 2014 at 18:47.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  8. #68
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Australia
    Posts
    30
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default Wow great post Nathan

    I am glad this thread has come out of the woodwork, very interesting discussion.

    Cheers

  9. #69
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Los Angeles, CA USA
    Posts
    2,570
    Likes (received)
    44

    Default Yae no Sakura - Taiga Drama

    [Post deleted by user]
    Last edited by Nathan Scott; 14th June 2014 at 07:14.
    Nathan Scott
    Nichigetsukai

    "Put strength into your practice, and avoid conceit. It is easy enough to understand a strategy and guard against it after the matter has already been settled, but the reason an opponent becomes defeated is because they didn't learn of it ahead of time. This is the nature of secret matters. That which is kept hidden is what we call the Flower."

    - Zeami Motokiyo, 1418 (Fūshikaden)

  10. #70
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    520
    Likes (received)
    72

    Default

    Hey Nathan et al,

    I'm not sure how I missed the posts about Saigo's sword. The last time I was in Japan in 09 I saw this very sword. It is a large kodachi/wakizashi... Maybe a very short katana. I know we like these things to be neat and well defined here but I've noticed they tend to be a bit blurred in Japan. Anyway it is the second of two swords owned by famous Bakumatsu era samurai that Kondo sensei has had in his possession; the other being a yoroidoshi owned by Yamaoka Tesshu. Tesshu's sword has a very nice brass koshirae with the Ono family kamon (orange blossom tachibana). These swords were both given to him for safe keeping. I think Saigo's sword was given to him by the Saigo Society and Tesshu's sword was given to him by Zensho-an.

    Very cool stuff

    Cheers,
    Chris
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

  11. #71
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Baltimore, MD
    Posts
    520
    Likes (received)
    72

    Default

    BTW, If anyone has a famous person's sword they need me to take care of please let me know. I will be happy to give it a good and safe home! It doesn't have to be Japanese either, I'll gladly watch over any cool sword
    Christopher Covington

    Daito-ryu aikijujutsu
    Kashima Shinden Jikishinkage-ryu heiho

    All views expressed here are my own and don't necessarily represent the views of the arts I practice, the teachers and people I train with or any dojo I train in.

Page 5 of 5 FirstFirst 1 2 3 4 5

Similar Threads

  1. The Nine Ryu-ha of the Bujinkan - are they legitimate?
    By Joachim in forum Koryu Forum Message Archive
    Replies: 389
    Last Post: 23rd November 2011, 12:20
  2. Daito ryu USA (John Denora)
    By Cat in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 101
    Last Post: 19th April 2009, 19:29
  3. Asayama Ichiden ryu and Daito ryu
    By Jay Bell in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 9
    Last Post: 23rd July 2003, 00:24
  4. Note: AJJ Forum house-keeping
    By Nathan Scott in forum Aikijujutsu
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 27th June 2003, 01:15
  5. Origin of Iai arts
    By szczepan in forum Sword Arts Forum Message Archive
    Replies: 75
    Last Post: 19th February 2002, 15:49

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •