On Aikido Demonstrations in general

[Dennis Hooker]

I am trying to find some serious answers from experienced Aikido practitioners with regard to something that has been on my mind for some time. I mean no slights or cuts to anyone in particular. These are general observations over 30+ years.

I recently attended an extraordinary event with outstanding teachers and exhibitioners. The events of the weekend and my many past experiences with demonstrations leads me to ask a few questions and make an observation or two with regard to Aikido demonstration in general.

The question I want to ask is why during Aikido demonstration do there seem to be so many injuries? Perhaps my perception of Aikido is no longer popular or in vogue, maybe it never was, but to me the safety for my Uke in such a setting is paramount. I was never a student of the founder of Aikido so I can not say what his demonstration and classes were like. Regardless of what the founder did in demonstrations I was taught by his students to be caring and regard the safety of my uke. Recently while going through a Myasthenia Gravis episode I was ill and not performing at even 40%. So when there were injuries they were to me not my ukes. That was as it should be, after all I did ask for their help in the demo. Also with some new shoulder parts broken the week before I knew what would happen if I took stress to the shoulder. I did and it did. That was my choice because I committed to someone to do the demonstration and I did it.! Could I have injured my helpers and not been injured my self? Oh yes, sure.

Has Aikido changed? Have I changed? I came to Aikido to re-civilize myself, to do a bit of self debriefing and deprogramming in the late 60’s and early 70’s as it were. The approved governmental version didn’t help much, but the Aikido of the time sure did. My early indoctrination to Aikido taught me that if my Uke was injured I probably did something wrong. This was a unique and beautiful thing to me. Enemies and those attacking me were supposed to die in reality , or within a setup scenario. This wonderful new way of thinking changed me and I saw it change many other battle hardened old booney rats. When I wanted to hurt someone I did it in karate and that was OK because the other guy was trying to do it to me also. We both accepted it. Supporting a family I also killed a lot of cattle, hogs and sheep in the Valentine Packing House which worked out a lot of rage. When you come from a year confined to a military hospital to a packing house where you kill a lot you start to look for ways to get away for the blood and pain and stench of injury and death. Aikido gave that to me. Aikido did not work out the rage it changed it into something else. Something much easer to live with and made me someone much easer for others to live around. In the slaughter house there was no mechanized sanitary killing like today, Like war, one man kills one animal the old fashion way and you end up knee deep in blood and guts. Some may say well hell Dennis your comparing animals to people, but I say if you kill a lot of either it makes you mind weary, bone tired soul dead.

When I see trusting people injured I got to ask why. Was someone doing something wrong? Where some teachers more interested in showcasing themselves than caring for those in their trust. Is this alright with most folks? Am I a throwback to another time? After all, most Aikido students attack their sensei with less than blood in their eye. Well most of the time anyway. And then they go flying with the greatest of ease at a flick of the finger or a touch or the arm. So how come the injuries? As a sensei you might be embarrassed if you are pulled down or bowled over but your not going to get broken. So if it looks like your going to be embarrassed do you have a right to hurt them intentionally, or even unintentionally by using uncontrolled technique. Perhaps you should just take the shot, go down, laugh it off and continue. That will show people who you are, not who you think you are. Maybe that is the problem. Perhaps some Aikido instructors should get involved in other martial arts where they get knocked on the ass now and again. This may take some of the stiffness out of their necks.

Perhaps I’m wrong but I have taken a few good shots over the years to keep from hurting my students. I have also taken some good shots because at that time the student was better than the teacher. Having seen and been in so many Karate, Judo, Kenjutsu and Aikido demonstrations for over three decades it seem that Aikido demonstrations have a disproportionate amount of injuries. I have been given the silly answerer from time to time that “Aikido demonstrations are the real thing” From my observation most Aikido demonstration are about as far from the real thing as one can get. Choreographed dances with mock attacks by hands, sticks and knife attack, or some not so well choreographed dances. Some are the real deal and those are outstanding examples of Aikido. They also show an instructor in total control with passion and compassion.

So, am I just all alone in my evaluation? Am I wrong? Am I just an old man who has lost touch with what is really supposed to be going on? What do you think?

Dennis Hooker
www.shindai.com

[Walker]

As a beginning thought.

Could it be that people have become too concerned with proving or showing that aikido is effective and in trying to prove this go too far? Is the subtext something akin to “If someone is injured, then they will know it is effective.”

I believe Ellis Amdur tells a story of a demonstration made at the United Nations organized by Dobson sensei. In the first demo there was a narrative designed to highlight the art of aikido. In a follow up demo Dobson was not involved and someone was injured in a display of “effectiveness.” After the second display the UN lost interest as the art had become just another form of fighting.

One thing I have always been impressed with is the sensei who receives the technique as in the old school arts. Perhaps if the sensei receives then there will be more thought regarding safety.

Of course if the sensei receives then it is the art on display rather than the personality. Modern aikido demonstrations seem to be more a display of the personality and technique of the sensei and second a display of the art.

I look forward to other thoughts regarding this.

[Genghiskhan]

Hooker Sensei,

You are definitely not alone in your assessment. Betraying someone's trust for the sake of looking good to others is inadmissable. The only reason Aikido is prearranged is to show the spectators the principles involved; there's no need to go beyond the call of duty to crank on someone's wrist or slamming their shoulders on the ground just to prove that Aikido could seriously hurt. It is outright unethical and this behaviour can not be tolerated. This shows me one of many things: A) The demonstrator is an egonistic maniac B)an insecured teacher c) irrational thinker d)unethical...i can go on but i don't want to get shot down like the Iraqi Airforce by the people that like to hurt uke and trying to rationalize it afterward!
I am very blessed as a martial artist to be taught by an ethical, caring and loving Sensei(oh...and his techical ability is nothing to laugh at either!) I will honor his way of teaching and hope to God that i will never betrayed my students or colleagues's trust; it is a sacred thing to some of us normal folks. I am also blessed with the fact that my teacher's vision of Aikido had led him to develop a system called The Kihara Method Principles which does not rely on pain to throw an opponent(please try to understand, this is not a shameless self-promotion, i'm just proving a point). In fact, if our uke feels pain when being thrown then our techniques are flawed. Because of this principles, there are no injuries in my dojo. When off-balance is optimized, nice things tend to happen, when pain is prioritized, sometimes bad things happen, especially when the sensei's ego is bigger than his bag of tricks!
All i'm saying Hooker sensei is this, one has to ask himself honestly of why they are learning Aikido or teaching it? I think is to instill confidence in oneself(as my teacher did for me) in order for one to be an asset to society, a protector to his family and friends...but you can't instill confidence without TRUST! There will be no Aikido advancement until there's a personality improvement, so these teachers need to check themselves seriously or risk the fact that they will never grasp the true essence of this beautiful art we call Aikido!

Johnathan Nguyen

[Chuck Clark]

Dennis,

After our many private discussions about this subject you know that I agree with you. I don't have any answers on how to change this sort of behavior. Lots of senior shihan have tolerated (or in some instances) encouraged this sort of training behavior. Then there many, many more that I have met and yet to meet that I'm sure do not tolerate abuse, in themselves or their students.

Human nature being what it is and considering our lust for power in its many forms, I don't think abusive behavior will ever go away. The people that do it, simply, enjoy it or they wouldn't do it. The real tragedy is that there are lots of willing victims that have been taught that the way to gain power is to stick around through the abuse and then its their turn. Many don't even realize they're doing it.

We just have to protect ourselves and loved ones from it and teach our students how to train without abuse.

Regards,

[David Russell]

I've enjoyed this thread, mostly because it makes me appreciate the school where I train.

From what I have read and observed, there seems to be two schools of thought on the role of pain in Aikido.

One school of thought is that pain is the primary indicator of the effectiveness of a techinue. If uke isn't hurting, then the technique is flawed. We've probably all seen the posts of students asking what to do in order to strengthen their wrist or treat a sore joint. I'm not sure what the long term health consequenses of these kind of injuries are, but it can't be good for you.

The other school of thought is that movement and control of uke through offbalance is the primary indicator of a techniues effectiveness. Pain is the last resort to be used when all else has failed and then only in the street, not in the dojo.

I've heard of one school who's head instructor is so brutal that he travels with 3 uke's so that he can finish a demonstration. From what I've been told his first techniques is shomenate, only he runs accross the room and knocks the devil out of his uke. My perspective is that this instructor has traded roles and should become uke when he runs at his victim, but I guess there is some kind of honor in letting a high ranked instructor beat the hell out of you.

There is always the opportunity to be hurt when you are stressing a joint to the limit of it's range of motion and great care has to be taken when exploring these techniques. Uke should be taught to tap out as soon as he feels any stress to his joints as pain is an indication of injury. We had one student who kept saying he didn't feel any pain so the techniques must not be working, (even though he was so off balance he could no longer walk, he had been conditioned at another school that he had to feel pain to prove the technique).

I have also been in martial art school where there was a favored student who seemed to always hurt someone every few months. I truly beleive that there are some people who like to hurt people in a manner and place where they can get away with it and justify it by hiding it as a training injury.

Personally, I think the way to end the injuries is to educate both the teachers and the students. Teachers need to understand that without healthy students, the art won't survive, and students need to know that they should leave the dojo and not come back if people are getting hurt on a regular basis.


David Russell

[hix]

I have never been to a demo in the States, but here I have not seen many serious injuries. Probably many slight injuries at the Tokyo Demo, but generally I found it very friendly. Since each dojo works seperately, I don't think there was a lot of "proving" to do. I found it a great demonstration in the many directions the art has taken.

[Batemanb]

I was always taught by my first Sensei that looking after your uke was paramount to practice. Everyone wants to train, enjoy training and come back to train next session. In fact I have been very lucky that all my Sensei`s have felt like that. Having said that, that doesn`t mean that there is no pain in their nikkyo`s or gokkyo`s etc. I think the main thing is that they feel what is going on in the technique, they know when the pressure is building on the joint, they know when to let off and they respect uke if he taps out. It is all about experience and respect for uke, after all, I am lending you my body so that you can practice/ demo your techniques, it is your duty to give it back to me in the same condition that you received it so that I can practice/ demo mine.

In my experience (small as it is), injury comes from inexperience or ego, mainly inexperience. Over here there are many 1 or 2 year practicioners who think that they need to add extra strength into their technique in order to down the 6ft 2 monster gaijin, often creating a lot of elbow stress, when a little extra tenkan is all that is needed. On the ego side, I remember vividly, a seminar with Toyoda Shihan in Bristol, UK a few years back. I had only been practicing for a couple of years and was still wearing a white belt. The mat was full to bursting, no room to do nage waza, the technique was kotegaeshi and I found myself in a group of black belts. One kindly gentleman whipped me around and nearly tore my hand off trying to force me over arm ukemi into the waiting line of ukes. Actually, now that I`m writing this I realize it was probably more his inexperience than ego. Either way, the gentleman had absolutely no respect for his uke`s.

As for Dennis`s comment about demonstrations being injury prone, it was the annual embutaikai for our renmei dojo last Sunday, 150 plus members turned up to give 2 hours of mini demo`s. We were told by one of the Sensei the day before, "take your time, it`s an embu, don`t injury anyone", this was the same person who invoked a ferocious gokkyo on me two days before when I was trying to stop him pinning me from a tanto attack. I`m happy to say, the day went smoothly with no injury of any kind.

[Peter H.]

The school I teach at we see a lot of military personell. a common problem we have is getting people to understand (especially officers and marines) that when it hurts, tap. Don't let yourself be pushed to the point of severe pain or injury. Some just don't get it.

We try to identify them early and stop them from hurting themselves, as well as the guys who like hurting others. Those who don't get the idea that we aren't trying to hurt each other, or refuse to follow this rule eventually leave the class after working a session with myself or one of the blackbelts.

Just for the record, I have injured one person in Aikido. We were both 6th Kyu White Belts, and he had a previously injured shoulder that I reinjured doing Ikkyu. I have also momentarily Ko'd a friend performing Irimi-nage during my 1st Kyu test. So that's 1 injury, 1 KO since 1995, and I have done many seminars and demonstrations as both Uke and Nage.

[davoravo]

People just get over excited, that nikkyo goes on twice as hard as intended. Osensei himself damaged one of his ukes when demonstrating for th emporer (supposedly because the attack wasn't genuine enough).

Also I think it's unfair to coerce people who normally wouldn't stand up in public to make a speech to demonstrate in public. Especially if they are a junior student, which is where most of the injuries seem to happen (excluding egomaniacs).

Having said that I do remember attending a seminar with a group of brown belts who were just keen to nail a black belt.

[RDeppe]

Hooker Sensei, would you mind being more desciptive of the number and kinds of injuries?

Thank you.

[Ian McDonald]

I agree with Hooker Sensei's views and will state them clearly as I see them. There is absolutely no excuse for any high level practitioner of any martial art, especially aikido, to injure an uke in a demonstration, period! No ifs, ands, or buts. Accidents can and do happen, however, but for tori to crank a technique on uke shows that their EGO is over-developed compared with their other mental and spiritual faculties. Unfortunately, a large percentage of skillful martial artists have healthy egos, it comes with the territory, and self-confidence is one of the qualities we strive to improve. What is needed to counterbalance EGO is Compassion. IMHO, that is the meaning of O'Sensei's statement that Budo is Love.

I was not present at the demos so I cannot speak to the occurrences there. It behooves all of us to be reminded of our duties from time to time. Thanks, Hooker Sensei.

[Steven Miranda]

This reminds me a story I read about O'Sensei being summonded to the palace to demostrate his martial art. He took two uke's, one being a very young Gozo Shioda. Moments into the demo, O'Sensei broke the first uke thus relying on Shioda Sensei having to take all the ukemi.

I guess if the founder can have an unfortunate accident, then we can as well. It happens unfortunately, but is not uncommon.

Just my randon insanity ....

[Chuck Clark]

Originally posted by davoravo
People just get over excited, that nikkyo goes on twice as hard as intended. Osensei himself damaged one of his ukes when demonstrating for th emporer (supposedly because the attack wasn't genuine enough).

This kind of behavior is understandable and falls under the category of "accidents". We all know that accidents can and do happen.

Dennis is talking about people that habitually bully and abuse their uke. They like the power. Anyone that has trained for some years for real can tell the difference.

There are bullies in charge of grade school classes. There are bullies that coach athletes at every level. There are law enforcement officers that are bullies. There are parents that are bullies. There are husbands and wives that are bullies. There are bosses in the workplace that are bullies. There are bullies that teach aikido, etc., etc. At some point, our practice should teach us to protect ourselves from all sorts of bullies. Good self-defence.

All of these are cheap shot artists that take advantage of those that should be able to trust them. They certainly don't have the guts to stand opposite someone that knows what the score really is.

Regards,

[Steven Miranda]

Dennis is talking about people that habitually bully and abuse their uke.

Dennis .... Is this what you are really talking about?!? I wasn't at the expo but think that if this is what you really meant, then you would have said that. No?

I unfortunately got sent to Chicago for work and missed out on the festivities but see two different threads here by two different people.

[aiki-zen]

This is general reply to the discussions posted here. As a student of Aikido and other forms of Budo, I would have to agree with what has been said. My general concern however is what led some people in Aikido to developing such an ego. As a student of Aikido, I have learned that Aikido’s fundamental axiom is the ability to use your opponent’s energy against them, but in a way that demonstrates compassion to your enemy. In a situation where two Aikidoka are in practice, it is sometimes easy to over do it; and someone ultimately gets hurt I agree that this is absolutely inexcusable and shows a serious lack of respect for your fellow Aikidoka.

I did have a question that I was hoping someone could answer for me.

In my previous experiences studying Karate, JuJutsu and a small amount of Judo, it has come to my attention that some teachers feel that it’s the uke’s responsibility to protect them selves in order to avoid getting hurt. I do understand that belligerent disrespect or torking an uke down is uncalled for in practice.

Just recently I had an opportunity to attend Doshu’s class at Aikido Hombu Dojo in Shinjuku, Japan. I overheard a discussion between some foreign (non-Japanese) yudansha. They had been discussing why they felt that an ego is too easily developed by some who study Aikido. From my understanding, they based their opinions on comparisons made with other martial arts. The martial arts that I specifically heard mentioned were Daito Ryu, Yanagi Ryu Jujutsu, and Shotokan Karate. From their perspective, they had mentioned that because Aikido is a much more dynamic, you would see a senior teacher execute throws where an uke would simply throw them selves in an effort to not resist during practice. This is some situations gives the “tori” a false sense of ability, which ultimately leads to an over absorbent ego.

Personally having the opportunity to study Aikido under such teachers as Ed Baker Sensei, Mr. Hooker, and Mr. Bell of Sarasota Aikikai. I’ve learned that Aikido is much more than a method of defense, but a form of budo that can be applied in everyday life. Though Aikido is very effective form of budo in regards to it’s values, it is my belief that the lack of a full commitment on the uke’s part will result in the inability to submit the attacker according to the principles of Aikido. This however is only an opinion of a beginner, but I would like to know what senior instructors really feel about the actual effectiveness of Aikido in comparison to other forms of budo that are more rigid or direct.

Before I end, I would like to say that I have nothing but the highest level of respect for all that study Aikido. Unfortunately, I do feel that because students in Aikido are so cooperative with each other in order to avoid the injuries discussed above; it’s actually the root cause of why students and teachers develop an ego or false sense of ability.

I’ve seen the tapes from the Aikido expo and also several others that have been distributed and sold. It’s in my opinion that a good portion of the techniques executed by Aikidoka could not actually be accomplished in a real world situation without at least a full and unreal form of commitment. But like I said, I am in no way an authority in Aikido, but have seen instructors that don’t have a clue, nor the ability to toss some of the people around as they so easily do. It seems to be a double edged sword. If a student resists, he chances hurting himself or his partner. If a student doesn’t resist, his partner is performing a technique that may not be feasible in the real word. Ultimately, Aikido is about self-defense, which means an attacker is not going to be cooperative or pliable.

A philisophical perspective...