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Thread: Rank

  1. #31
    Jim London Guest

    Red face OT: Yawara

    Originally posted by Shojin
    Ju is the kanji also read yawara meaning soft or yielding.
    Hi,

    Along the way I have learned a whole set of techniques or kata refered to as yawara, these included using a small 6" dowel as a "yawara stick."

    OK, I know I am fairly Of Topic by now, especially in a BJJ thread, but could you PM me with the possible translation for "Jitsu". You've got me curious now. I have previously thought that Jitsu and Jutsu were almost interchangeable.

    Jim London.

  2. #32
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    Default jitsu

    jitsu is the currently acceptedd rominization of the Japanese word for truth the 2 kana are ji and tsu. Later I will post a graphic of the kanji

  3. #33
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    Default Kanji

    here is the kanji for jitsu


  4. #34
    Jim London Guest

    Default ???

    Jack,

    Did you even read the thread??

    Go back and read the post by Hissho on page two of the thread, he effectively answered my original question. It is evident to me now that BJJ has a different standard for what constitutes an instructor. After reading his reply I did some web searching and found a number of excellent books written by BJJ Brown Belts, see:

    Jiu-Jitsu.net

    For the BJJ master text, I am not sure of the Gene Arahna's (spelling?) current rank but at the begining of his writing career he was a BJJ brown belt, though a Japanese Ju-jutsu Black Belt.

    Every art is responsible to police itself and determine what constitutes an instructor, this is usually a Black Belt. In BJJ, as I have learned, it is not.

    I personally like to know the background and qualifications of anyone I choose to learn from. It is absolutely a legitimate question to ask. To quote Tim Cartmell in this thread:

    You ask valid questions, here's my response. First of all, Mike and Shojin have already covered the bottom line, regardless of our rank, the question is can practitioners learn useful techniques and strategies from the information presented? We believe the answer is yes. We could have waited a couple of years and published the book after we received black belts, and with the exception of posing for the pictures in a different colored belts, the information would have been exactly the same
    Jim London

  5. #35
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    Default

    Romanization is the attempted for non native speakers to use there native tongue to figure out foreign words. As well as there are several romanization methods.

    JUTSU and JITSU have been the accepted romanji for the same kanji (in this case "Technique") But that doesn't mean the JITSU can't be used for another kanji. (KI is used for at least five kanji I can think of off the top of my head) In English we have stair and stare that sound the same but mean two different things. In Japanese if you were to right it in katakana it would be the same thing becaue of the way they sound.
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

  6. #36
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    Default

    Back inthe 1980s in the UK it was quite difficult to find a black belt Aikido teacher. We had to travel, or invite them (or do Judo). And they were good. And we trained hard, even if it was amongst ourselves - we were dedicated kyu-grades. Now black belts are ten a penny and many are ... not so good.

    BJJ is at that stage - there are not enough teachers to cater for the demand. And it will have the effect that students have to travel or invite - and they will make the most of their contact and study hard. Later, as more black belts appear, somehow, mysteriously, training will be diluted.

    If a kyu grade writes a book - so what - if it's good, people will buy it. If not, they won't. I remember someone quoting a Japanese Sensei elsewhere in this forum on hearing that his foreign student had written a book - he said something like - "How dare he write a book, I've been training for x number of years and I wouldn't presume to know enough to write a book." Well, it went something like that. As for me, I think anyone can write a book - a journalist with no experience might write far a better honest piece than we could just by observing what we do!

    Jujutsu is the correct romanisation of the art. Other methods are oudated, or mistaken. Most schools directly connected to Japan use Jujutsu. If you study Bocshing or Resling, I guess that's fine too.

    Rupert Atkinson

  7. #37
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    Default

    None other than the Kodokan spells it "jujitsu." See http://www.kodokan.org/e_basic/history.html Those whacky Japanese!

    My International Webster and Oxford American Dictionary (Heald Colleges Edition) also spell it "jujitsu." Go figure. I guess they are "incorrect" and "outdated" as well....

    Anyway, back on topic. I am a rokudan of Japanese-derived jujitsu, sandan in judo, and a few other dan ranks in various other things. I train as a white belt (four stripes) under Prof. Charles dos Anjos, a former Gracie Barra instructor. When he is not around to teach, I feel EXTREMELY fortunate to be trained by his blue, purple, and brown belts.

    The dan-i rank system is an artificial construct (sometimes loosely based upon perceived skill, more often not), a tool which is used in slightly different ways by different groups. Some groups become a slave to the ranking/certification system, some groups don't.

    Skill on the mat is not artificial.

    Jeff Cook
    Wabujitsu

  8. #38
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    Default Rank vs Skill

    Jeff, herein lies the problem with many traditional systems. In many traditional ryuha, many yudansha are not skilled at their level, yet they don't have to "prove" anything. There are schools that are run by purple and brown belts that are exellent, yet if they don't have the color "black" they are not respected. I think that when you have the author of this thread, who admits that many blue belts can have their way with other black belts, he should be woried about how he can even the playing feild of skill instead of crying that they are not yudansha. That's the mentality that keeps other arts from evolving and progressing.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  9. #39
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    Default

    Agreed, Manny. That's why my ass is currently on a BJJ mat, when not teaching in my own school!

    As a jujitsu guy, I have found it necessary to improve ALL facets of my game; that is why I sought out instruction to black belt level in karate (to improve my atemi waza) and judo to dan level (to improve my nage waza). Jujitsu is an extremely broad art, and really does not specialize in any one area. So I visit specialists to improve in various areas. This is pretty much the traditional way of traveling farther down the path: go to people who are better than you are in certain areas, and beg them to teach you.

    By the way, I am happy to report that from day 1, no blue belt has "had his way" with me; I have been able to hold my own quite well while learning some extremely valuable lessons that have improved my ground game immeasureably. But I also get a good helping of humility on the mat, which is very good for me and my students, and I love and deeply respect my BJJ mentors and instructors for not only improving my game but more importantly for improving my character.

    Jeff Cook
    Wabujitsu

  10. #40
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    Thumbs up On the Mat

    I'm very happy to hear that Jeff. That is what the martial arts are about. If you look at some of the pioneers of the arts, all have gone outside their respective arts to stay on top of their game. I think the traditionalists should re evaluate themselves and their priorities to put themselves back on the map. Only in that world have I had someone in their forties say that a Seventy seven year old can "wipe the floor with him". I've seen some pretty impressive elders still training, and respect them immensly, but all things being normal, it is not physically possible. They need to dispense with the myths and Santa Clause stories and get to it. My school just merged with another down here, and now have the best of bjj and wrestling. We have a professional ring and some great competitors.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  11. #41
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    Default

    Fantastic! Congratulations with your school! I plan on being down your way next month for the NAGA US Nationals. Will I meet you there?

    Jeff Cook
    Wabujitsu

  12. #42
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    Default Naga

    January 18th, I will be there. We'll talk before so we can meet there. Hector will be there also. Look forward to seeing you.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  13. #43
    JAMJTX Guest

    Default different appraoch to ranking

    Regardless of what one may think of BJJ compared to the Japanese arts, you really can not compare the 2 ranking systems.
    From my understanding, a BJJ practitioner can teach at blue or purple belt. A black belt is granted to experts in the art.
    Whereas in a Japanese system, a first degree black belt (or Shodan to use the correct terminology) signifies a beginer. I know SHO means BEGINER and I believe DAN means STEP (as in the rung of a ladder).
    BJJ and the Japanese arts not only different ranks and tecniques but different goals and philosophies.
    So you really can't compare the ranking systems.

    Jim Mc Coy

  14. #44
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    Default

    That's why my ass is currently on a BJJ mat, when not teaching in my own school!
    Jeff,

    Just your ASS?!?!?! You realize other parts of your body are suppose to be on the mat as well. Seriously, I should be in GA in FEB for school (BNCOC) I plan on visiting family and friend in FL. Would you mind if I stopped by to meet you?

    I would love to go to NAGA in Jan, but I will still be here. However I do have a wrestling invitational that weekend so it isn't a total loss. Besides I got to payback one particular AF guy.


    (I know SHO means BEGINER and I believe DAN means STEP (as in the rung of a ladder).


    SHO genrally means FIRST or PRIMARY. DAN, as you know, is DEGREE, STEP, PLATFORM, etc.

    A shodan simply means that you have taken you first grade in the dan ranks and are no longer a kyu. But this image has been distorted for a long time. Many still feel that once they hit the first dan they should have masted the system, but as we know that is not the case.
    LeTerian Bradley

    There are no excuses on the mat, in the cage, or on the battlefeild! Train wisely!

  15. #45
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    Default

    LeTerian,

    My ass is the largest and heaviest part of my body, and due to gravity, it seeks out the lowest point, and thus seems to always be in touch with the mat....

    I would love to link up with you! My unit received it's mobilization order yesterday, but we should still be able to hook up in February. Our mob station is Ft. Stewart. Are you going to be there? Let me know. If not, we can probably hook up after. Shoot me an email with your address so I can tell you what's going on, and where we might be able to hook up at.

    Whup that USAF guy's butt good! I didn't know they wrassle; does he know that he isn't gonna be rolling around in jello wearing a thong?

    Jeff Cook
    Wabujitsu

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