Originally Posted by
glad2bhere
Dear Erik:
I just finished fielding a question along these lines for another person and thought you would find the following information interesting. This is always a subject guarenteed to start a flurry of emails so have fun but be careful.
BTW: Check out that site on AIKIDO JOURNAL.com. Theres' a lot of good info there if I do say so myself.
"Now THAT is the $64 thousand dollar question for the ages!!! I wish I could give you some nice neat yes or no but life doesn’t always work that way. I will tell you what my research has found to date.
The American Hapkido Assn has published an interview with GM Choi and I believe it is still on their website. How about if we use this as a medium for discussing this, ‘kay?
According to the interview, there is no question that GM Choi went Japan when he was very young (8 or 9) and lived there until he was repatriated to Korea after the Second WW. The report is that while in Japan as a small boy at a Buddhist school, GM Choi came to the attention of OS Takeda of the Daito-ryu and stayed with him for the balance of his stay in Japan. So far this is not a problem. Lots of people were moved from Korea to work in Japan and from Japan to populate Korea at that time. GM Suh, in an interview even states GM Chois’ Japanese name (Yoshida Tatujutsu). When GM Choi came back to Korea he reports that all his documents associated with his years in Japan were stolen at a train station. No documents. GM Choi reported in his interview that he had mastered Daito-ryu aikijujitsu and so began teaching what he called “yu sool” or “yawara”.
Now, lets take this a step at a time.
1.) In order to MASTER Daito-ryu Aikijujitsu you need to be awarded a Menkyo Kaiden. There have only been three of these awarded in the Daito-ryu history and GM Choi is not recorded as one of them. Many, many more teaching licenses were issued by the Daito-ryu (Kyoju Dairi) but there is no record of one being issued to GM Choi under either his Korean or Japanese name. There are however, other Korean MA who are listed on the attendence lists in the archives of various factions of the Daito-ryu. There is even a tantalizing rumor that GM Chois’ name can be found in the rosters held by the Daito-ryu Kodokai or the Roppokai but these organizations tend to be very closed lipped about this matter (and anything else as well) and will not allow for an examination of their records.
2.) GM Choi represented himself as one of, if not THE student of OS Takeda, going so far as to say that he, Choi, accompanied Takeda all of Japan and even to Hawaii for a historic presentation in the 1930-s. No records. No one remembers this person. There are no pictures or newsclippings. Not in more than 30 years of “training” is there any record or memory of GM Choi serving in this capacity (or any other that I have been able to find).
3.) The teachings of Daito-ryu can be broken into three levels of sophistication beginning with ju-jitsu, moving to aiki-jujitsu and ending with aikijitsu. The techniques which were integrated into the Korean arts by GM Choi are only of the ju-jitsu level of sophistication. (Now there has been indications of aiki-jujitsu and aikijitsu level technique but this has not been traced to GM Choi and is very inconsistent. This could suggest introduction by another Korean national who also learned Daito-ryu but to a higher level of sophistication, or may be indicative a higher level of development by Korean MA independent of Japanese influence and inspite of the terrible Japanese occupation. Needs more study.)
4.) The teaching of Daito-ryu include Ken-jitsu (Japanese sword techniques) of the Ona Itto Ha Ken-jitsu style. There are also Jo (stick), Bo (staff) and knife as well. None of these weapons biomechanics have been identified with Hapkido except as a function of those arts already existing in Korea at the time of GM Chois repatriation. Hapkido practices weapons but after the fashion of traditional Korean weaponry. So one finds Kum-bop instead of Japanese Kendo, cane rather than jo, and Korean staff and spear instead of Japanese Bo. The practice of knife or short-sword has become a matter of personal selection much like the practice of rope or belt techniques. Also the rope techniques are more a function of snaring or entangling rather than binding.
So, where does that leave us.
COULD GM Chois have studied Daito-ryu? Certainly. He also could have taken one of the many seminars offered by OS Takeda and then focused on study in one of the lesser schools. Or he could have just picked-up odd bits during his many years in Japan. Who knows?
Did GM Choi master Daito-ryu? In my opinion, No. There is no documentation, there is no biomechanical evidence, and there is no curricular evidence.
Why does this historical position persist? Follow the money. Hapkido is big business with a minimum of 7 major and hundreds of minor organizations. Nobody is going to step up and say that the emperor has no clothes. And, be careful, those same people don’t want anyone else saying it either!
Now I know you are probably eye-sore reading all this babbling and its not my place to try to convince you one way or another. I just want you to consider ALL sides of the story. Nothing I have said here is anything that you can’t find out for yourself if you just dig a bit. In the meantime I want to mention (briefly, Honest) something you mentioned in your letter.
Just to keep things clear the emptyhand techniques didn’t “come from” the weapons anymore than the weapons techniques “came from” the emptyhand techniques. These techniques (armed and unarmed) share common biomechanics such that if you can perform a particular movement well with you body doing an emptyhanded technique, you will likewise do well performing that same movement with a weapon. A turning movement with a sword is a turning movement for a kick, is a turning movement for a throw, is a turning movement for a strike, yes?
The “entwining” techniques you mentioned (AKA “snaring”) are extant in Hapkido and from what I have been able to find in research may have been preparatory for binding techniques. "Snaring" whether by elbow, knee or ankle is a manipulation taught at BB level (for me, I teach it at first degree BB) along with the limited binding techniques I have been able to uncover. If you locate some of the material of the Daito-ryu you will occasionally find techniques which allow the defender to stand and clap their hands while the attacker is “magically” restrained on the floor. Nearly always there is a knee or ankle snare involved to lock the attackers’ arms behind and allow the defenders’ hands to be free for other duties (such as binding). "
Have at it.
Best Wishes,
Bruce W Sims
www,midwesthapkido.com
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