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Thread: "Chihayaburu..." Poem Translation

  1. #16
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    Could anyone confirm or deny this? I'm genuinely curious....
    Stephen Kovalcik

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    Here is the actual opening rei ho (or prayer) that is stated.......

    "Chihayafuru kami no oshie wa tokoshie ni tadashiki kokoro mio mamoruran"

    Then the phrase "Shikin haramitsu daikomyo" is stated and then repeated by the students.

    The beginning phrase without undertstanding does sound similar "chi, sui, ka, fu, ku", however that is not it.

    Back in the old days John Lindsey jokingly stated that the best way to recite shikin haramitsu daikomyo, for those that had problems repeating it was "chicken. hot mustard, diet coke in a bowl". LOL.
    Dale Joseph
    Jinenkan Butoku Dojo

    With "Justice and Unity" as our motto, the Jinenkan will continue to emphasize the fundamentals, faithful to the Densho, in pursuit of natural movement which is as unforced as the flow of clouds and water"... - Manaka Unsui Sensei

  3. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by tweety
    Could anyone confirm or deny this? I'm genuinely curious....
    I personally have never heard of a Bujinkan school that ever recited the "Ninja Seishin no Kaisetsu". In fact, I've never heard nor seen a Bujinkan school that ever said the entire Tadashi Kokoro no Kaisetsu poem in its entirety either. They just say the last part, "Shikin Haramitsu Daikomyo". It's interesting though that some of them think those 3 words mean what the entire poem means - they just don't know the rest of the poem.

    But, I think the Genbukan has had such an influence on some Bujinkan members and teachers, that many people now use some of their "customs" and training drills. I saw one school that had put much of Mr. Tanemura's drills into their own curriculum (I believe it was the Zantotsu Sabaki series of evasion skills) along with some of the other formalities that aren't a focus in the Bujinkan.

    How does the Jinenkan perform their opening class procedures?
    Bill Haynes

    #1 pickup line of all time: "Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

  4. #19
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    Actually, while I was in the Bujinkan under John Lindsey back in the late 80's and early 90's, he opened classes exactly as I stated before. It is also done that way in Japan at the hombu. I believe that Hatsumi Sensei most of the time does it silently with the exception of the shikin haramitsu daikomyo.

    At the Jinenkan Honbu Manaka Sensei opens class in the manner that I stated above.

    Unfrotunately, I have never heard of the Ninja Seishin no Kaisetsu thus I cannot comment on it.
    Dale Joseph
    Jinenkan Butoku Dojo

    With "Justice and Unity" as our motto, the Jinenkan will continue to emphasize the fundamentals, faithful to the Densho, in pursuit of natural movement which is as unforced as the flow of clouds and water"... - Manaka Unsui Sensei

  5. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by kakuma
    Here is the actual opening rei ho (or prayer) that is stated.......

    "Chihayafuru kami no oshie wa tokoshie ni tadashiki kokoro mio mamoruran"

    Then the phrase "Shikin haramitsu daikomyo" is stated and then repeated by the students.

    The beginning phrase without undertstanding does sound similar "chi, sui, ka, fu, ku", however that is not it.

    My Japanese is not that bad.

    In fact, I've only convinced myself further that this is said in the Bujinkan, as I recognize the "shin shin shikio shinobu" passage as well.

    As I said, I'm no one important. It's very possible I'm wrong, and I'd love to hear from someone in the know, but for right now I'm going to stick.
    Stephen Kovalcik

  6. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by kennin


    Sure it is! Depends on the dōjō though.
    May people are to lazy to recite the lengthly prayer.
    Most people don't even care to learn it by heart!

    The prayer that is recited in Genbukan only is the "Ninniku Seishin":

    "Ninja seishin towa, shin shin shikio shinobu. Ninniku seishin o konpon to suru. Chijoku o shinode urami o hojisaru, nintai seishin o yashinau kotoni hajimaru mono de aru.

    Nin to wa, kokoro no ueni yaiba o oite, yaiba de hito o kizutsuketari suruyona monodewa naku, kajo waraku, hana no gotoki joai o motte heiwa o tanoshimu mono de aru.

    Yueni, tai o motte shizen nin aite no ken o sake, sugata o kesu, kyojutsu tenkan no myo o e, icho kuni no tametoka, gi no tame ni: chi, sui, ka, fu, ku, no, daishizen o riyoshite, aite o taosu (seisuru) koto ga, ninja no konpon gensoku de aru."
    Hello Kennin,

    Were you once a dojo-cho in the Genbukan?

  7. #22
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    Default ninniku seishin

    Nin-niku Seishin
    The spirit of Enduring Disgrace
    by Tanemura Tsunehisa
    from Ninja Realm, Fall 1983 vol.7 no.3

    The above article was written to Hayes from Tanemura over a year before Tanemura left the BJK. It is the exact same ninniku seishin (ninja seishin) that is in the GBK now.

    One could assume it was/is in the BJK also. In what format, a written poem or a verbal recited poem as in the GBK is in question. I have never heard Hatsumi-sensei or any of the Japanese shihan say it.

    Only thing you will hear is the "chihayafuru kami-no oshei-wa tokoshie-ni tadashiki kokoro mi-o mamoruran" saying right before "shikin haramitsu daikomyo". Outside of Japan this is said varying from dojo to dojo, for the most part not being said.
    Last edited by Shinobi; 28th June 2006 at 19:52.
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

  8. #23
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    Who came up with the niniku seishin anyway?
    Was it Takamatsu?
    Thanks
    Andrew Timms

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    I believe it was Takamatsu-sensei, but I could be wrong.

    As for the entire prayer, we used to do it when I first started classes in the mid-90's. Depending on your sensei you may or may not do it, or only do parts of it.

    Its a very good practice in class, it takes discipline to learn. And it also denotes respect to the forefathers of our arts, most notably Takamatsu-sensei.

  10. #25
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    Wow, I haven't posted here on E-Budo in forever, but I've decided to come out of the shadows and stop lurking to ask a small favor. I won't go as far as to ask this for the Ninniku Seishin, but could someone please provide the Tadashi Kokoro Kaisetsu written in Kanji/hiragana so as to make it easier to translate for those of us that love to do self-translations? if anyone could do the same for the Ninniku Seishin, I would be grateful, but considering the length, unless it has already been done, I won't make such a request. Thanks in advance!
    Joshua Krill
    Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
    "First footwork, then spine work, then handwork..."
    - Shiraishi Isamu Sensei

  11. #26
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    ?????????????????????????????????????
    If that doesn't come out in the post, here's a GIF of the same thing:



    Translation note:

    1) "Chihayafuru" is voiced as "Chihayaburu"
    2) "Mio Mamoruran" is voiced as "Mi Wo Mamoruran"

    I'm sorry I do not have the Ninniku Seishin kaisetsu on my computer, but I could translate it. I just don't want to sit at my computer all day!

    Regards,

    Bill
    Bill Haynes

    #1 pickup line of all time: "Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Haynes
    1) "Chihayafuru" is voiced as "Chihayaburu"
    I have a recording of Tanemura Sensei saying the whole phrase. It sounds like he is definitely saying "Chihayafuru".
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

  13. #28
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    Wink

    Quote Originally Posted by Bill Haynes
    ?????????????????????????????????????
    If that doesn't come out in the post, here's a GIF of the same thing:



    Translation note:

    1) "Chihayafuru" is voiced as "Chihayaburu"
    2) "Mio Mamoruran" is voiced as "Mi Wo Mamoruran"

    I'm sorry I do not have the Ninniku Seishin kaisetsu on my computer, but I could translate it. I just don't want to sit at my computer all day!

    Regards,

    Bill
    Thanks a million, Bill. And, of course, if you're ever bored, maybe you can tackle the Ninniku Seishin Kaisetsu. The reason I asked for the kanji and hiragana was mostly because I wanted to make sure that it was "mi (w)o mamoruran."
    Joshua Krill
    Bujinkan Budo Taijutsu
    "First footwork, then spine work, then handwork..."
    - Shiraishi Isamu Sensei

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by George Kohler
    I have a recording of Tanemura Sensei saying the whole phrase. It sounds like he is definitely saying "Chihayafuru".
    Yes, I always thought it was voiced that way as well. I speak Japanese and my wife is Japanese, and she voices the Kanji when it is phrased all together like that as "buru", but it's not a hard "B", nor is it a hard "F". Perhaps it is something akin to regional dialect? I don't know.

    Yes, the "Mi wo" is the correct Kana, not a "mio" thing, whatever that is. But when said rather quickly it kind of sort of sounds almost like a "mi-o", not a hard "w" sound. But it is there.

    Regards,

    Bill
    Bill Haynes

    #1 pickup line of all time: "Hey, does this rag smell like chloroform to you?

  15. #30
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    Dear all,

    Check this page : http://www.flashpoint.be/chiryaku/sy...hin_prayer.htm

    All the best,
    Filip Poffé
    Renshi
    Dojo-Cho Chiryaku Dojo Belgium

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