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Thread: internal arts and taijutsu

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Jul 2002
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    Default internal arts and taijutsu

    greetings i was wondering if anybody had experience
    with hsing i pakua or tai to how if any helped or hindered your taijutsu.i know in the genbukan we have pakua in our teachings
    and i was thinking of learning internal arts as well mainly for health
    however i notice that there are similarities between taijutsu and tai chi (well i guess you can find that in most arts
    anyway looking forward to some good responses

    -chi jonesone

  2. #2
    pooh Guest


    Hello Pac Man,

    I have studied both Tai Ji and Xing Yi and I really enjoy both arts, not only for maintaining health, but for the internal connections which I develope in the process. The Tai Ji style that I practice is a yang short form developed by the late Professor Cheng Man Ching. My Xing Yi teacher(Stuart Charno) is fo the lineage of Sifu Kenny Gong. Stuart is a pureist and he believes that if you are going to study one art, than you shouldn't try to train in others. I believe this is true to a degree. By studying Xing Yi you develope what they cal the Xing Yi body, Tai Ji-a Tai Ji body, etc. My Xing Yi teacher also compared the bodies developed in the three internal arts of China (Xing Yi, Ba Gua and Tai Ji).

    Tai Ji= Rubber Ball-when the opponent attacks, they feel as if they attacked a rubber ball and are bounced back (so to speak)

    Ba Gua= Wire Ball- When the opponent attacks, theirs a feeling of being wrapped up

    Xing Yi= Steel Ball- When the opponent attacks, he/she feels as if they have run into a wall.

    After all that, I will try to answer the question. For me I feel that it has helped me understand and coordinate my body in ways that I might not have been aware of otherwise. Not that those connections wouldn't have been made, but the awareness of those connections may not have been stressed. I think Tai Ji played an important roll in me understanding hard and soft, rooting, and sensitivity. Xing Yi helped me make connections in way that I had never dreamed of. It also taught me heavy and light, solid and yielding, heaven and earth. I am still a beginner at both arts, but it is interesting what has transpired through these trainings. I do want to say that I am very lucky to have found wonderfull teachers in these arts. I have seen some Tai Ji and Xing Yi teachers and styles that didn't focus on the internal as much. I wouldn't waste my time. I have taijutsu to help me understand good martial application.

    For Tai Ji read the classics. I recomend "The Essence of Tai Chi Chuan" by Lo/Inn/Amacker/Foe. This is a good intro into the principles of Tai Ji.

    Good luck on you journey!

    Mark Franco, L.Ac.
    Bujinkan Jihi No Kokoro Dojo
    City of Angel's

  3. #3
    Rich Guest


    Nice reply, Pooh.

    I would, however, disagree on the point about not training in more than one art- realising that you didn't entirely agree with that point either (that the sifu recommended). I am sure that these different 'bodies' could be emulated by Soke and the shihans, by which I mean that the feeling of the attacker could be manipulated by body movement to experience this. After all, a point I keep stressing, bodies are the same everywhere so most power generation techniques are fundamentally similar. The tai jutsu basic tsuki derives its power in the same way that Jack Dempsey, the boxer, delivered his jabs and cross- also Bruce Lee used this method. The difference were superficial additions (ie tension that tai jutsu shows is not needed). There are some techniques/attributes that would be detrimental to artists studying more than one style- adding tension as in karate (commonly taught karate that is) when one is learning tai-jutsu is the obvious example (but here again advanced karatekas and boxers realise the detrimental effect of a huge tense at the end of a strike), another difference would be the Shukokai double hip punch where the body moves before the strike starts when one is also learning to move the striking limb slightly before the body comes into play- although again many people learn both quite well because they get contextualised. The power generation coming from a torso twist is fundamentally the same in both examples but the feeling and mechanics differ.

    I have gone off topic a bit here, sorry, and used hard styles as examples a bit but when looking at the arts as they were used/ are used in times of combat I feel that differences are generally more superficial (although this is missed more often than not by practitioners otherwise they'd all aim to move like the taijutsu masters or chinese experts).

    Pacman, I found tai chi very beneficial for the purpose of rooting and uprooting, helping to relax more into movements etc.

    Regards all


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