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Thread: half for others

  1. #1
    shugyosha Guest

    Default half for others

    im not often here, and my litle voice may not be sound there but i think kenshi will like to involves themself in volunteering, helping children, preserving the nature, keeping the peace...

    here are some organisation i know

    World wide oportunities on organic farms (www.wwoof.org)

    greenpeace

    http://www.greenpeace.org/volunteer/


    amnesty international

    http://www.amnesty-volunteer.org/


    i hope this message will be usefull to some souls and bring light to some hearts

  2. #2
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    Ah, but Jimi, what if we're not greenies, or indeed believe that environmentalism isn't a movement for the improvement of human lives?

    This story explains that Sir John Krebs, head of the UK Food Standards Agency has refused to endorse organic food. He has been lambasted by Michael Meacher who wants to insist on promoting it - a political decision at odds with the science. A quote from Geoffrey Hollis:

    The success of organic food is entirely down to heavy marketing using unscrupulous methods. Myself and others have complained successfully to the Advertising Standards Authority (ASA) about a string of untruthful campaigns run by the Soil Association and supermarkets promoting organic food. The ASA has been forced to issue a code of guidance for organic food, which prohibits all the main claims made on its behalf: that is uses no chemicals, tastes better, is welfare friendly or environmentally friendly.
    These rulings weren't very highly publicised: that none of the claims in favour of organic food are truthful.

    Organic food is a nice option for rich Europeans whose farming is so productive that we can afford a little less efficiency. In the developing world organic means 'diseased, rotting in transport, and downright inefficient.' So here's one kenshi that would rather see intensive methods and GM technology being promoted to feed an increasing population.

    Personally I don't think that Shorinji Kempo should encourage its members to support any particular political cause, simply to follow events and try to understand and interact with them. If you want to support Greenpeace fine, but I will not.
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  3. #3
    shugyosha Guest

    Default geeeesssss

    i dont even know what else can i tell...
    well do as you please to help the others then....
    in spain they created a project called "mano echa mano" to organise vuluntarism among kenshi wich as been saluated by a letter of kancho,

    but you can still sit and watch on tv peaple dying, forest deaseapear or hear your neighbour crying as you like.....

    beside the assossiation i quote are not political nore related to the global speculative market....

  4. #4
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    Jimi,
    I disagree with Greenpeace and the Organic Movement's political aims.

    If you re-read my post you will see that I argued against them on the basis that they are not in the interests of the developing world. We can debate the issue if you like, but don't make claims that I don't care. I believe that Greenpeace has some very misanthropic policies, which is why I won't support them.

    I agree with Amnesty International's political aims. I don't think I should tell my kenshi to support that organisation.
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  5. #5
    MikeCarew Guest

    Default

    Before this degenerates into a discussion about which charity or political goals we share lets get down to basics. When I was a youngster growing up in the Chicago area I was in an organisation called the "Order of the Arrow" through the scouts, and later in a group called Alpha Phi Omega, when I was attending the U of I. These groups both performed volunteer work in the LOCAL community. I can assure you that when you give of yourself in this way you feel that you have gained something priceless. The projects involved woring at old people homes, build playground for disabled children and so on. There is no shortage of projects that need to be done.

    I believe that it is entirely in keeping with SK philosophy to perform these sort of projects. I would like to hear of any dojo's that have organised such a project.

    I fear that whatever you may think of the large charities, and some I support myself, that they are closer to businesses thatn charities sometimes. Charity work in your local community is also a good way to spread the word about Kempo in a positive vein.

    Lets hear some stories. If not lets start some.

    Mike

  6. #6
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    A side issue: When replying to a post made by someone who does not have English as their first language, please make it simple to read. I don't mean "dumb it down", just go for simpler sentences and vocabulary.

    Thread Topic in question;
    To be reminded of our existence in the world at large is not a bad thing. Finding extra time for voluntary work often feels impossible. Doing voluntary work is very rewarding and productive and totally in keeping with Kaiso's teachings.

    Donating cash or time to charities is a personal decision. Most people will trust the well-known charities to be worthy causes. If you have reasons to disagree with an organisations' aims, then of course you shouldn't give your time to them. Always be aware of what you are doing.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  7. #7
    shugyosha Guest

    Default alright

    lets say there is always a way to help other, and there is always
    time to live for others, that was my message, not about politic,
    organisation, or group,
    the ACTION, the intent was what i was reffering.

    now i shouldnt be there ^-^

  8. #8
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    Sorry Jimi, I realise what you were saying now. I thought you were saying we should support those particular organisations.
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  9. #9
    Eastwood Guest

    Default

    Originally posted by David Dunn
    Ah, but Jimi, what if we're not greenies, or indeed believe that environmentalism isn't a movement for the improvement of human lives?

    These rulings weren't very highly publicised: that none of the claims in favour of organic food are truthful.

    Organic food is a nice option for rich Europeans whose farming is so productive that we can afford a little less efficiency.
    David,
    I have a special concern for this question of local or organic farming because when I came back to the States from Japan and wanted to introduce SK to people unfamiliar with it, I realized how much I knew about how to explain SK in the Japanese setting, and how little I knew about explaining things effectively in an English lanuage context. When I looked around to see who was talking in a Kongo Zen sort of way, I was surprised to discover that Wendell Berry (an agrarian philosopher and advocate of small farming on models spurned by all our agricultural science university programs) sounded closer to Kongo Zen approaches to human community than anything else in the English language. So, I think this question of agriculture and its methods has a lot more to do with Shorinji Kempo than one might suspect.

    When Wendell Berry talks about small farming, his first concern is conservation - he wants to conserve farmers, people who know how to grow without destroying the land. He's aware that small farmers have done a lot of damage to land in the past, but it's also clear that farming families protect and enrich the soil better than industrial farming does. So, if you follow the logic, conserving the farmers does 2 things well: it keeps the topsoil from flowing into the air and sea (U.S. topsoil loss is higher now than it was in the Dust Bowl era of the Great Depression - another environmental destruction driven by short-sighted advice from agricultural colleges). It also keeps bankrupted farmers from flowing into the cities as unskilled urbanites who were once skilled rurals. The one group that has avoided this in the U.S. is the Amish farmers. They don't borrow money from banks and they basically farm organic, not for New Age reasons, but because pesticides kill soil bugs, thus requiring plows to aerate the soil, thus requiring loans and regular maintenance costs, thus requiring bankruptcy anytime the business cycle goes kablooey.

    Or to put it in Kongo Zen language. It's the people, the people, the people. The Amish and the small farmers who've learned to integrate into their local communities know that if they are merely producers and consumers, they can expect to live inhumane lives. I know that Amish and the local organic farms that I've hooked up with in Chicago act first as human beings, so I know they won't "harvest" cow flesh so close to the spine that I will eat spinal chips and risk mad cow disease. I know they don't cut corners and follow the new USDA (Dept. Agriculture) regulations that since August 2002 allow slaughterhouses to cut off pieces of ulcerated, diseased meat rather than reject the whole carcass as unsafe. They view me as more than a purchaser and revenue source, but as a part of an environmental cycle that requires conservation as well as profit. I get conserved, and they get conserved - half for oneself and half for another.

    I think the organic farming urge has to do with conserving human community, of which the soil is an un-subtractable part. It says a lot to me that the people pushing organic farming in the UK are soil conservation people. It's probably true that not all organic products mean better taste/nutrition/soil/etc., but so what, really. After all, most businesses fail in the first year, but we don't conclude from that that the whole idea of earning money by going into business is a fraud perpetrated by over-fed first worlders, right? So, push the organic farm fans to realize that organic isn't enough, that farming/eating community is also essential.

    To soften the tone. I think you're right that organics is not all about taste and nutrition. But it is all about something we care about very much - beginning with oneself, and building community from such small beginnings. If I buy from a farm that loses 1/20th an inch of topsoil every year instead of from one that conserves and even enriches the soil, what sort of community am I making?

    Sorry about the length here, but I think the soil people are some of our closest allies. Our awareness of what they're doing well is one thing that can make us more than just martial artists.

    Kesshu.

  10. #10
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    Thank you Michael. I think that must qualify for entry into the E-Budo Acadaemy Awards in the categories "Most Unexpected Thread Response", and also "Most Educational Response".

    I didn't see that coming!
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  11. #11
    shugyosha Guest

  12. #12
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    Michael,
    I'm not sure we should go too far in this debate on a Shorinji Kempo board. The primary food supply issue in the world is not how the first world chooses to fiddle with its vastly superior productivity, but how to increase the productivity of the under-developed world. We are not at the ravages of nature any longer, so we are able to romanticise 'closeness' with it. Those that are at the ravages of pests, disease, very poor soil, the weather and poor transport and distribution systems don't have that luxury. Quite simply food production across vast tracts of the globe is barely able to feed the people there. Our intensive farming methods, and GM offer a chance to improve that situation. Perhaps later they might also have the luxury to retire some of their productive land.

    There is a report of the Indian Agricultural ministers retort to Prince Charles. I cannot find it now, but suffice to say that he was mightily unimpressed.

    The Geoffey Hollis article I mentioned is here. Here is an interesting article and some links.

    I just want to draw attention to the fact that there are a lot of issues at stake in this debate and it is not clear-cut. Kongo Zen cannot (and I think should not) dictate what side to come down on. Otherwise we would be a political organisation, rather than a budo organisation.
    Last edited by David Dunn; 10th July 2003 at 09:00.
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  13. #13
    shugyosha Guest

    Default no

    forgive me M. david
    but with all the respect you dont know what you are talking about,
    i have lived 6 month in india, have many indian friends, and Farmers,
    and still in contact with them, the situation is different of what you think, there is more than enought ressources, and production is not the problem.
    now i agree that this debat is out of context here, but please try to avoid surperficial judgment.

    i hope i did not disturb you

  14. #14
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    Sorry to upset you Jimi. I just pointed to some articles to show that the debate is not concluded and that experts do not yet concur. I have no knowledge of the Indian economy, but I know that pro- and anti-GM positions exist within that country. The point I am trying to make is that Kongo Zen does not dictate what political and economic viewpoints to adopt, or religious ones come to that.

    [kimpatsu mode] Comments to the effect that I don't know what I'm talking about, or have formed a superficial judgement, are ad hominem and refute nothing. Appeals to authority, including your own and friends, are argumentum ad verecundiam and also refute nothing. [\kimpatsu mode]
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  15. #15
    shugyosha Guest

    Default not at all

    Sorry to upset you Jimi
    not at all david, i just think you should rely on your own experience rather that others, if you want to see the truth, and that is what is kongo zen is about? to rely on onself no?

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