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Thread: Didactics: Students correcting students

  1. #16
    StrangeFruit Guest

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    [QUOTE]Originally posted by don
    Originally posted by StrangeFruit

    Apropos of nothing..."StrangeFruit "--reference to Billy Holiday and the justice of Jim Crow?
    huh?

  2. #17
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    Default Re: Re: Didactics: Students correcting students

    Originally posted by don
    When they want to correct me, I say, "Can we talk about it after class and train now?"
    Sounds like a good one. I'll try it! I am also one of those who does not like to be over-taught.

    I feel the best correction from my partner is when my partner does the technique. If I know I have a problem, I can observe and then if necessary ask for help. If I do not ask for help, I am probably in the process of trying to figure out. If I need help and do not ask for it - well, that is kind of my problem I think.

    When teaching, I used not to touch on these issues. Nowadays I actively try to minimize the "sempai teaching" in my classes, as I think it overall has a negative impact. In classes smaller than 10 people there is IMHO very little need for "sempai teaching". Advanced students teaching their partner easily end up pointing out more or less every mistake they see. If accepted, it must be supervised.

    Originally posted by Martyn van Halm
    The question is this:

    If an advanced student corrects a less advanced student, how far can/should they go?

    - no correction - only the instructor corrects
    - non-verbal correction only - and only flagrant mistakes.
    - non-verbal correction only - all mistakes, flagrant and subtle.
    - verbal correction allowed - only flagrant mistakes
    - verbal correction allowed - all mistakes, flagrant and subtle
    - other
    How about "students should give advice to other students only when asked for"?

    This functions differently in differen dojos, and in the end is up to the teacher and size of class. The non-verbal version can be nice. I prefer to say it this way: the advanced student can give advice, but should not confuse this with teaching. I do not quite like the term "correcting" either. Sometimes advice is unwanted, then it is better not to give them. Having fresh beginners into mixed class in an exception, though. Just be careful so the teaching attitude does not spill over to the entire class.

    Originally posted by Martyn van Halm
    In armed martial arts this is much more difficult, both because of the distance and 'lack of feeling' through weapons.
    Does this difference make up for a difference in correcting mistakes?
    Personally, I find it equally easy or difficult to feel when something is wrong in paired weapons practise as in weaponless. Maybe more difficult to feel the way out of the problem, though.

    I think here lies a difference in that in jujutsu/taijutsu uke is a tool for nage to pratise on, so to speak. In paired weapons practise, both parties are each others tools. I think it is about attitude. I still not like the "teaching" version, although it might be more needed here. The student so easily get stuck in a teaching role that he or she stops looking at her or his own mistakes while concentrating on the partner.

    BTW, "Strange Fruit" is one of Billie Holiday's most famous songs. It is about a lynching.

    Southern trees bear strange fruit,
    Blood on the leaves and blood at the root,
    Black bodies swinging in the southern breeze,
    Strange fruit hanging from the poplar trees.


    http://www.boscarol.com/nina/html/wh...angefruit.html
    You didn't know?!?
    Hanna Björk

  3. #18

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    Originally posted by StrangeFruit
    huh?
    Really? Your ID isn't a reference to Billie Holiday? You should do a quick google on her name and on 'strange fruit'.

    Cheers,

    Mike

  4. #19
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    Speaking from a student's perspective, I *want* my training partners to help me train. When I know something's not quite right with my technique, and it's not plainly obvious to me, I nearly *always* ask my training partner if they can see what I'm doing wrong.

    While I *have* had training partners get miffed over it, I've *never* had an instructor get upset about it - on the contrary, it seems like some of those questions open up the floor for discussion and demonstration of peripheral applications that weren't previously on the docket for that training session.
    Carl Hamlin
    -----------------------------------------
    'The etiquette that underlies all martial arts is based on the assumption that the person with whom you are dealing is standing before you wearing three feet of razor sharp steel.' - George Ledyard

  5. #20
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    Hi there,

    reading in the background and I think this my 1st post as I think I can't add that much of value. I've been training in the Bujinkan for about 4 years and recently received my Shodan and some of the Kyu grades, who are also good friends of mine, start asking me more and more questions (about technique, not basics like kamae, punches etc.) plus they seem to like to experiment on how far they can go with me as a black belt (Can I pull this of? How's he reacting? TBH, I follow Newton's 3rd law ) as they knew me as a Kyu grade in the past and I'm the only one they know or trained with who received his Shodan in the last 12 months. I don't mind replying to a question but don't see me in a position to teach/instruct as I only see me as a beginner who's belt colour has changed. This thread is quite helpfull as sometimes I'm a little bit lost and I'm just getting to know my Instructor (If it makes sense what I mean) so it's quite nice to find advice here.

    Cheers,
    Kris Stern
    Kris Stern

  6. #21
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    Hi everyone!

    I was a teacher at the university and I had such cases when the more smark (we may say clever, fast or so) student was correcting the others in spelling, grammar of the other students (i was teaching language).

    As for me, i really didn't like that. I consider, the teacher not only have the power to correct, but also, he rules at the class. When the students start duing this, it is no fact that those whom they are correcting will not be offended, and it could be that this correcting is wast, the material a learned wrong as students do not percieve other studets as teacher, as insrtuctor, at the ent as a competent one, whom they can trust.

    Other case, when students out of the class help each other to cope with the topic. This not only helps to learn material for those who are bad in it, but for those who explain - it is a good way to better get the material.

    Thanks!

  7. #22
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    Makes sense to me.

    Other students, even if well meaning, are not the teacher. They may not be telling the other student to right thing at the right time.
    Chris Thomas

    "While people are entitled to their illusions, they are not entitled to a limitless enjoyment of them and they are not entitled to impose them upon others."

    "Team Cynicism" MVP 2005-2006
    Currently on "Injured/Reserve" list due to a scathing Sarcasm pile-up.

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