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Thread: On the front foot or pure back foot defense?

  1. #1
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

    Default On the front foot or pure back foot defense?

    It was something I heard spoken recently and it was something that I've also determined from reading Mushashi's Book of Five Rings: Embrace the Agression.

    What are your thoughts on the matter. Is your Aikido, now this isn't an opportunity for the esoteric peculiarities of the art to be determined, my question is when you are using, have used, dreamed of using or plan to use your skills, are you in fact working off the front foot in order to "sen-no-sen" or are your waiting for the opportunity to find an opening and as such "fighting" off the back foot.

    It's been my experience that stepping in is the easiest way for me to, steal, Uke's balance. Just recently in a backyard spar, I managed to step in to force my friend to comit to an attack that he really didn't want to and even said, "I wouldn't have thrown the punch if you hadn't have stepped in!" and I was able to Yonkyo him into a nice throw.

    His grappleling skills in round 2 had me thinking that I must never take a Jujitsuka to the ground, again, EVER!

    What's your experiences? Ever sparred someone for fun and used Aikido? Do you train on the front foot? Do you not know what I'm talking about with the Front foot/Back foot theory?

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    Default

    Well, I suppose I'm "front foot." My go-to techniques in open sparring are Irimi Nage, Tenchi Nage, and Sankyo (omote), often using them to "jam" techniques or set up for a clinch. Then again, as one of my sparring partners put it, "That was a bit agressive to be Aikido."

    I wonder what he'd say if he saw my Atemi.
    J.T. Hurley

    Sic vis pacem, para bellum

  3. #3
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    Default Re: On the front foot or pure back foot defense?

    Originally posted by Stephen_Bannan
    Ever sparred someone for fun and used Aikido? Do you train on the front foot? Do you not know what I'm talking about with the Front foot/Back foot theory?
    back during sophmore year when I was on the wrestling team I used to Aikido during practice on a semi regular basis. I couldn't use it so much in real matches because techniks like sankyo and yonkyo being unsafe as they are, are not alowed. I would use those techniks when someone was riding me from behind and trying to each across my chest to grab my opposite shoulder so that they could shove me onto my stomach. what I did was pulled one leg up under me so that I ws on one knee then grabbed there wrist with both hands and apply either sankyo and yonkyo. then I would extend there wrist out in front of me and down while at the same time scooting out from under them to the opposite side from the wrist that I grabbed thus placing them in a vonerable position on the mat in front of me.

    Did you follow that?

    and no I don't know what you mean by front foot or back foot theory. please elaborate
    Grandmaster, Soke, Dr. Julian Gerhart Phd

    10th dan Fakuyu ryu Jujutsu
    8th dan Babikyu ryu Ninjutsu
    7th dan Meriwana ryu Aikido
    4rd dan Chipu baduka ryu Iaido

  4. #4
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

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    Front foot/Back foot theory:

    To have the weight of oneself over/on the front foot. To keep said weight forward or to have ones weight over/on the back foot in a slightly reclined nature. Back foot stances have always, to me, seemed like you are looking for away to run because you are going to get beaten and you are looking for a way out. It's harder, in my opinion, to take advantage of the situation and in turn force the opponent to comit to fake.

    Front foot stances or leading from the front is, again my opinion, easier for you to take a more "offensive" defense in order to control the situation, by enabling you to move forward faster as you already have your weight over the front foot making it easier to move forward. Of course this does however negate the "Shinzentai"(sp) or natural stance technique employed by many. As you will be standing there with one foot forward and one behind.

    Forcing the error in my recent history seems to be the easier way to "hurry up and wait" for Uke to throw something I can use.

    Step in and thow.

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    Talking Use what feels best...

    I was taught to keep 70% of my weight on the front foot and I've always used that.

    However, due to a wrist injury that was almost healed when I got into a motorcycle accident that hurt my ankles and knees, I haven't trained in Aikido for close to three years now.

    Still know the techniques, though, as an unlucky fellow found out yesterday.

    I live in Amsterdam, where roads are often closed for repairs, and bicyclists have a tendency to ride on the sidewalk.

    So did I, yesterday. It seemed to irritate a couple walking that same sidewalk. The man - bellowing at me to get off my bike - grabbed my arm.

    Big mistake.

    I took his hand and brought him to his knees on the sidewalk with a one-handed nikkyo.

    Will these people never learn? I could've been an aggressive person and kicked the sh!t out of him. Now he got off with a bruised wrist and ditto ego.

    Ever sparred someone for fun and used Aikido?
    I was at a party once where a guy who trained in Chinese martial arts [or so he said] wanted to see my profisciency in aikido. I didn't relish using a shiho-nage on an unsuspecting dickhead, so I gave him a broomstick and told him to crack it over my head. As he stepped in and swung the broomstick [shomen-uchi] I stepped in [ura] and stood behind him with my fingers ready to jab his kidneys. He blanched, put down the broomstick, and went to the kitchen to get some drinks.
    Didn't ask me about my martial arts prowess anymore, though.

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    Default

    Front foot.
    RT

  7. #7
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

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    Martyn,

    You seem to be fairly violent for a one time Aikidoka! I don't really condone violence against the unsuspecting.

    Wankers that thing there the best thing since dentures for dogs on the other hand.......

  8. #8
    bruceb Guest

    Default 70% on front foot??

    That is insane, unless you are always moving to the rear?

    Whatever foot recieves the weight allows the movement of the other foot, or the body to pivot on the weighted foot. Weight should be equally distributed with no special stance, nothing to give way what you will or will not do. Simple hands up, palms open, I don't want any trouble stance.

    I don't know of anyone who doesn't shift weight or slide in without shifting weight to the pivot leg or none moving foot unless you are bunny hopping in? (Just kidding)

    I need a little more clarity as to what exactly is going on here.

    Are we talking about different ways to move in and get off the line of attack? Or ...are you feinting a foot movement to be a sweep, a kick, or preparation to get off the line of attack?

  9. #9
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

    Default

    Bruce,

    What I was getting at is more of a state of mind then a stance of practical application. The type of mind set you use is important to the out come of a battle. It is as you sort of mentioned, important to move, shift your weight. That said, you're correct with stating that you should not be bound by form, but your mindset should be that of unwavering committment to the outcome. STEP IN AND TAKE OUT!

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    Default

    Read the books by Gozo Shioda on training in aikido. That will make the statements about the weight being forward clear, even if you don't agree with them.

    RT

  11. #11
    Aikidaniel Guest

    Default

    Here I am thinking that this had something to do with cricket...

    Front foot for me

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    Talking What is violence?

    Originally posted by Stephen_Bannan
    Martyn,

    You seem to be fairly violent for a one time Aikidoka! I don't really condone violence against the unsuspecting.
    Violent? Unsuspecting? Did you read my post as carefully as I crafted it? I didn't use violence, I used an aikido technique in self-defense to an assault [he touched me first, without permission].

    And 'unsuspecting'... If you try to manhandle a stranger, you have to expect a reaction. I could've been violent, hell, before I took up aikido, I probably would've elbowed him in the face for trying to drag me from my bicycle. So I must've mellowed quite a bit to *only* putting a nikkyo on some self-rightous nitwit who tries to manhandle me to score points with his girlfriend.

    I understand that you don't 'approve' of using violence against 'the unsuspecting', and you wouldn't 'condone' it if one of your pupils did it, but I'm not one of your pupils and I don't need to justify myself to you. So don't use the word 'condone' when you berate me on my behaviour.

  13. #13
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

    Default Re: What is violence?

    Originally posted by Martyn van Halm

    I understand that you don't 'approve' of using violence against 'the unsuspecting', and you wouldn't 'condone' it if one of your pupils did it, but I'm not one of your pupils and I don't need to justify myself to you. So don't use the word 'condone' when you berate me on my behaviour.
    Slow down. I mean not to offend. I also don't know why you think I have students. I am not a teacher, just a student looking for conversations and answers to questions. I'm not having a good at you by the way, it was just at first reading your reply, you 'seemed', to my Interoperation, to have used violence, a bit.

    I didn't berate you on your behaviour, and I don't think you should or need to justify yourself to me, or anyone else. I have always believed and seen that Aikido and those that practice it were a peaceful bunch.

    On another note, it's good to see that you have put your skills to good use, thus being another arguement against those that say "Aikido doens't work." Congrates!!

    Peacefully and Respectfully.

  14. #14
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    Stephen,

    I'm not offended.

    I'm a writer and thus susceptible to the correct usage of verbs. The verb 'condone' means 'to allow'. Allowance is made towards subordinates/pupils - you condone someone's behaviour. Since we're all equals here [although some seem to be more equal than others ] I merely pointed out that you cannot use the verb 'condone' in this context, since I'm do not have to justify myself to you - as a subordinate/pupil would.

  15. #15
    Stephen_Bannan Guest

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    Martyn,

    Fair enough, can I say that I don't support violence against the unsuspecting? I think you know what I mean. Anyway, I meant no offence, you said you received none, I am happy.

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