General application of Go Ju Ittai

[Plechazunga]

There's been some debate at our dojo recently about the concept of Go Ju Ittai, specifically how much one can say it has applications beyond the dojo walls. While it's intellectually satisfying to think that all philosophical concepts in Kongo Zen have relevance to 'ordinary life', in the case of Go Ju Ittai attempts to generalise the principle seem a little strained. Sensei George drew our attention not long ago to the relation between GJI and the idea of 'tough love'. Despite the tweeness of the term, it does describe something useful and valuable in our relations to people we want to 'help to help themselves' (to use another slightly nauseating phrase), and as such a concept highly relevant to the ethical code Kongo Zen tries to instill. Moreover it is a clear case of the unity of a 'harder' mode of behaviour with a certain 'softness' in both long-term goal and underlying emotion; as such it is certainly one metaphorical extension of GJI.

But Sensei George said he was ultimately dissatisfied with this interpretation, and that he was still thinking about it and of course we should too. This is my clumsy attempt to do so, and I'm hoping that by criticising, commenting and calling me a twat you'll help me to clarify my thoughts.

My feeling is that there already exists a generalised explanation of the centrality of GJI to everyday moral life, within the principles of Kongo Zen. This includes 'tough love', 'gotta be cruel to be kind' etc without being limited to it. If we think about the meaning of 'hard' and 'soft', we associate 'hardness' with strength, solidity, vigour, force, unyielding pressure, as well as connotations of difficulty and physical prowess; we associate softness with yielding acquiescence, acceptance, lenience, gentleness, relaxation, care.

The communion of these qualities, in everyday life, is seen in the balance found between on the one hand self-discipline, developing one's strength, confident action, and gaining the power to influence society in some way, and on the other compassion, caring for and developing others, acceptance of misfortune, calmness etc. It's not that living half for oneself is 'hard', half for others 'soft', but that a blend - indeed a unification of active, powerful qualities and yielding, accepting, gentle ones is fundamental to moral life. In other words, the general application of Go ju Ittai is Riki ai Funi.

Again, i don't mean Riki ai Funi has no application in the dojo - of course it does, but behaviour in the dojo, though distilled and ritualised somewhat, should be of the same essential character as outside. Go Ju Ittai describes the specific application of the unity of hardness and softness to Shorinji Kempo waza. Riki ai Funi describes Kongo Zen's approach to hardness and softness in moral life: one without the other is either harmful or useless (and therefore harmful); correctly understood, they are inseparable; when practised in harmony, they have a beneficial effect on society and the individual.

I know this is a very simplistic take on these much-discussed and immensely complex issues - as I say it's just food for thought. Sensei George, I'd be particularly interested to know whether the kind of unity of active use of power with yielding acceptance of fate is relevant to what you were saying about action, inaction and Zen mindfulness.

Finally, in accordance with the principle of Riki ai Funi, I'd like to state that a hard and draconian FA punishment of Arsenal FC for their latest bout of ill-disciplined violence would be, in the long-term, for their own good.

[David Dunn]

Originally posted by Plechazunga
There's been some debate at our dojo recently about the concept of Go Ju Ittai, specifically how much one can say it has applications beyond the dojo walls. While it's intellectually satisfying to think that all philosophical concepts in Kongo Zen have relevance to 'ordinary life', in the case of Go Ju Ittai attempts to generalise the principle seem a little strained.

Good question Adam. I've considered it before. It is alone among the six characteristics in seeming to only have technical application.

I think about the 'tai' in 'ittai'. It implies 'hard and soft are part of the same body' - not, note, 'unity' of hard and soft. I'm led to believe (corrections welcome) that the implication is human body, i.e. humans consist of hard and soft elements, active and passive elements. If you appreciate goju ittai, you should be able to develop more strategies than someone who always wants to be hard or soft. Here is a quote from the Swedish Federation's site:

Kaiso used to say, "Strategy is a thing that changes," to explain Shorinjikempo's characteristic distinction of hard and soft responses depending on the attacker's approach. Moreover he did not restrict the thinking behind "hard and soft united" to the realm of physical techniques saying: "The essence of Shorinjikempo is something that can be used in daily life." He explained the connection between Shorinjikempo's technical approach and its basic approach to daily life saying: "It's doing a good job of grasping that chance that comes and goes in a flash, or responding to the variations. And you don't lose focus. I think that's the best."

I think ken zen ichinyo, riki ai funi and goju ittai are intimately related, but don't forget fusatsu katsujin, kumite shutai and shushu koju. The whole package has to be studied:

Originally posted by Plechazunga
the general application of Go ju Ittai is Riki ai Funi.

Originally posted by Plechazunga
Sensei George, I'd be particularly interested to know whether the kind of unity of active use of power with yielding acceptance of fate is relevant to what you were saying about action, inaction and Zen mindfulness.

George, what have been going on about? Poor devils

Yielding acceptance of fate? Aren't we supposed to consciously change ourselves? Perhaps the two things aren't mutually exclusive. I'll have to think about it more.

[cheunglo]

Gassho

I think Go Ju Ittai is tactical in nature whereas Riki Ai Funi is a matter of policy. A real world application of Go Ju Ittai is the good cop - bad cop strategy.

[Plechazunga]

Good cop, bad cop...cruel to be kind...tough love...no pain no gain...I just think these are a bit limited as an extension of GJI into moral life. How often is one called upon to administer a dose of 'tough love' or play bad cop to your partner's good? (that question is rhetorical btw, your private lives are no concern of mine). Not very often, compared to the general usefulness of trying to balance and harmonise your forceful, direct, active tendencies with a more accepting, adaptive approach to life, using the intrinsic characteristics of obstacles to overcome them instead of trying to obliterate them...this interpretation is not in opposition to but subsumes the 'tough love' one.

Or something like that.

[George Hyde]

Hi all,

More than a little difficult to no where to begin here. Adam has pretty much pointed out my position on the matter, in that I find this subject particularly difficult to 'transmute' into a real world non-technical setting whilst remaining distinct from other teachings, particularly riki ai fu ni. As a consequence, I've decided to take a leaf out of William James' book of pragmatism and say that there is no distinct real world non-technical application "of any cash value".

This discussion brings to mind what Gilbert Ryle called a 'category mistake' made by theorists and philosophers when trying to explain consciousness as separate to the body. In making such an error one is attributing something to a thing that doesn't belong or trying to identify something as a distinct entity when it is merely a property (perhaps one of many) of a previously explained phenomena.

Of all the 6 main principles, goju ittai and ken zen ichinyo stand apart in that they do not speak directly to behaviour. They are concepts, abstract in nature. We don't have the same struggle with ken zen ichinyo because it is an overarching theory that encompasses all our activities. That's how it should be for goju ittai - the fact that this is ostensibly limited to technical application does not make it any less valuable. Understanding goju ittai even within this apparently limited application has wider implications.

The thing to be learned from goju ittai IMHO is the 'ittai' bit - 'one body'. That is to say that the two concepts - despite their defining characteristics - are simply abstract properties of the same thing. Treating them as separate obscures the 'thing' of which they are an inseparable part. The task of seeing them as properties of the same thing is an aspect of the wider task of cutting through all the bvllshid and 'seeing things how they really are'. As budoka such should be implicit in all our endeavours.

Sensei George, I'd be particularly interested to know whether the
kind of unity of active use of power with yielding acceptance of fate is relevant to what you were saying about action, inaction and Zen mindfulness.

George, what have been going on about? Poor devils

This is an elaboration on the above harvested from the Gita. The task is not only to see the things with which one is confronted as they really are, but also one's self and one's motives in the same light. To act for good whilst renouncing the fruits of one's actions and accept the bad whilst renouncing the adverse consequences this has for the Self. In short to see things as they really are and treat all with equanimity.

In answer to Adam's question, I suppose you could relate the idea of go and ju to action and inaction. However as I said, whilst the former is an abstraction and, in the context of our practice, a means to examine nature of reality, the latter speaks directly to behaviour. To say that go and ju are aspects of the same thing and not distinct in themselves is the point of goju ittai. To say the same of action and inaction is stretching it a bit, but worthy of further consideration nonetheless.

Later,

[Tripitaka of AA]

I really love it when I find myself reading the same thread over and over, just to enjoy the flow of the writing. Some of the stuff is a little deep for me (or way over my head, you choose), but I am very pleased to be able to read it. Thanks to the contributors who actually make an effort to write something first, and then post it (unlike my off-the-cuff, spur-of-the-moment ramblings).

Thanks everyone.

One point. Could you start off a topic like this with the briefest single sentence translation of the chosen topic, just to get the ball rolling. I remembered Goju Ittai quite quickly, but sometimes I get halfway through a thread before I can work out what we're talking about. Please remember that while the novice Kenshi may not need to know these subjects for their grading just yet, understanding the basics won't do any harm. So to introduce any topic with a simple translation would often help.

[tony leith]

From George

Of all the 6 main principles, goju ittai and ken zen ichinyo stand apart in that they do not speak directly to behaviour. They are concepts, abstract in nature. We don't have the same struggle with ken zen ichinyo because it is an overarching theory that encompasses all our activities. That's how it should be for goju ittai - the fact that this is ostensibly limited to technical application does not make it any less valuable. Understanding goju ittai even within this apparently limited application has wider implications.

I'm not asure that I entirely agree with George about this - for me, one of the great virtues about ken zen ichinyo is that it's a very grounded concept of human being. I think it does also have very profound implications for behaviour. If you think your counsciousness arises from the interaction of your somatic being with the world, you are likely to behave in a different way from if you belive that your consciousness is an extrusion of some empyrean realm into the material universe. For example, if somebody said to you that if you were only willing to fly a passenger aircraft into an office building, it'd be sherbert and houris in the hereafter for evermore, you might be inclined to treat the proposition with some scepticism.

As to go ju ittai, I think there are applications beyond the dojo, albeit maybe at the level of metaphor, especially if you think in terms of hardness crushes softness, but gentleness can overcome hardness. Probably one of the the most profound things we can take away from our practice is an increased awareness of the dynamics of a our relationships with others. I don't think it is stretching a point to say that in some situations a forceful or 'hard' reaction is called for, whereas in others quiet diplomacy achieves better results. Isn't the point of Shorinji Kempo that the dojo is supposed to be a microcosmic reflection of real life, albeit heightened and sharpened.

Tony leith

[David Dunn]

Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
One point. Could you start off a topic like this with the briefest single sentence translation of the chosen topic, just to get the ball rolling.

Not always easy David No one has given me a satisfactory explanation of the differences between 'ichinyo', 'funi' and 'ittai' which are all often translated as 'unity'. I'll try.

"Goju ittai" translates "hard and soft are different aspects of the same thing". A methodological breakdown, so that you can learn the thing.

"Riki ai funi" implies that we should not develop strength and compassion separately ("should not be two"??). As Cheung says, 'policy'.

"Ken zen ichinyo". An aim? A truth? A bloody difficult one.

I think that goju ittai implies that we should adapt to each situation, and adopt the appropriate response. That is 'henka'

[Steve Williams]

An aspect of GoJu ittai is with all of us......
It does not relate directly to the discussion, but it is late and I am tired..... anyway......

A trained muscle is both hard and soft..... this was said to me by a friend I train with in the gym with (he was once the "Mr Britain" about 10 years ago, so knows wherof he speaks).

A trained muscle when flexed is extremely hard to the touch.
That same trained muscle when relaxed should be very soft and yielding.

Hence Hard and soft as part of the same entity, or part of the same thing........

GoJu ittai in action, and with a little work we can all see/feel it.

I know, this is as George said "no cash value" and does not relate to any practical use....... oh well

[Tripitaka of AA]

Thanks for the One-Liners, David D.

Although I was making a more general request for Threads to begin with a simple beginner level introduction before launching into the deeper waters, those translations served to illustrate how difficult it can be.



I am reminded again of how fortunate are the students who train with Mizuno Sensei directly (do they really know it!?). When it comes to philosophy, or Japanese translation, or technique, there is no higher authority this side of the Pecos! It makes it all the more important for the other instructors to get their act together and know their onions.

Having said that, I do find it all a bit Mizuno-centric on this forum sometimes, almost like there aren't any other instructors in the BSKF. I think this needs to be addressed sometime... I'll try and find a way (goes off to put on his Thinking hat and assumes Zazen seated position)....

[David Dunn]

Originally posted by Tripitaka of AA
Having said that, I do find it all a bit Mizuno-centric on this forum sometimes, almost like there aren't any other instructors in the BSKF. I think this needs to be addressed sometime... I'll try and find a way (goes off to put on his Thinking hat and assumes Zazen seated position)....

I think that too David, perhaps simply because most of the regular posters are Sensei's kenshi. It's the same problem of getting the other readers to become posters.

[Plechazunga]

Originally posted by Steve Williams
I know, this is as George said "no cash value" and does not relate to any practical use....... oh well

Actually Sensei I think you've hit the nail on the head (gently, obviously), returning us to the idea of bodily hardness/softness. After discussing it at the dojo last night, I can isolate three arguments:

1.

Originally posted by tony leith

As to go ju ittai, I think there are applications beyond the dojo, albeit maybe at the level of metaphor, especially if you think in terms of hardness crushes softness, but gentleness can overcome hardness. Probably one of the the most profound things we can take away from our practice is an increased awareness of the dynamics of a our relationships with others. I don't think it is stretching a point to say that in some situations a forceful or 'hard' reaction is called for, whereas in others quiet diplomacy achieves better results. Isn't the point of Shorinji Kempo that the dojo is supposed to be a microcosmic reflection of real life, albeit heightened and sharpened.

I'd agree with this i think, pursuing the metaphorical associations of the principles, or at least exploring their more everyday connotations. My problem is that I think once you get into this kind of metaphorical extension of the hardness and softness,
you're overlapping pretty much completely with riki ai funi. Cheunglo, you argue that RAF is policy, GJI strategic. Wouldn't any given example be just a strategic application of a general policy?

2. Sensei George outlined his view above, and explained it at somewhat greater length in his howa yesterday. Correct me if I'm wrong Sensei, but the main idea is that by coming to understand GJI, you can dissolve the difference between what appear to be polar opposites, thus stripping away illusion and coming closer to apprehending reality directly. In this view, 'go' and 'ju' are representative of other prominent dualities that need to be transcended/dissolved. I have two problems with this. Firstly, it makes the actual 'go ju' content of the principle seem a bit arbitrary in terms of its general application - why not use ken and zen or something? Secondly, just what dualities are we talking about? Because as far as I understand it dissolving the distinction between, say Good/Bad or True/False sounds a bit dubious in terms of Kongo Zen Sensei...


3. The angle taken by James Lee from our class was very different. His question was, Why do we want/expect each principle to map onto a general application in moral life? People tend to enjoy symmetry and find something missing when it isn't found - I remember as a kid I used to consider lions, wolves and bears as a group, and it irritated me that bears had no equivalent smaller domestic animal like cats and dogs. Likewise that we had the words batter, better, bitter, butter but not 'botter'. So we feel that GJI should have a secular application not so much because we really believe kempo techniques are physical manifestations of zen truths, but because it dissatisfies us aesthetically if all the other principles extend but not that one. As James argued, life's not like that. The principles are not universal truths enclosing every aspect of life, but man-made, historical and contingent. After all, suppose that by some random series of events, Go Ju Ittai had never been 'canonised' as a Principle, but was a lower-level concept found useful in teaching. It might be techers felt it was a fundamental truth and it even made some privately unhappy about the 'Goho'/'Juho' dichotomy in organisation of classes; but it's unlikely we'd be searching after a general moral meaning and straining conceptual frameworks to accomodate it. Ultimately, James argued, truths are not univeral and all-encompassing, but earthly, pragmatic, tentative, fleeting...

Then there is Kaiso's interpretation, concerning seeing and grasping opportunity in life - I don't really understand this at all yet.

Perhaps the best point so far is

David Dunn

I'll have to think about it more.

Anyway, I tried arguing to my girlfriend that hardness and softness were one and the same, but she said, "Don't give me any bvllshlt Plechazunga, just get the bloody Viagra prescription."

So there you go.

[David Dunn]

Originally posted by Plechazunga
As James argued, life's not like that. The principles are not universal truths enclosing every aspect of life, but man-made, historical and contingent. After all, suppose that by some random series of events, Go Ju Ittai had never been 'canonised' as a Principle, but was a lower-level concept found useful in teaching.

Adam, Kaiso organised Shorinji Kempo on the basis of the six characteristics. I doubt that chance played much of a role in his selection. Shorinji Kempo is characterised by goju ittai.

I think you're abstracting a fairly simple concept, which is that we should develop our ability to adjust to possible situations by not fixating on one strategy. I visited Abbey dojo a few weeks ago, and Jee Sensei gave the yudansha a lecture. The main point is that we were like tofu, only soft, but budoka should be hard also. He said words to the effect 'no zen without ken, no ai without riki, no ju without go'. Perhaps you're beating yourself up too much in trying to separate the characteristics out to that extent? Perhaps it really is the same message applied to strategy, character, policy and so on. I think the message is to make your character 'goju'.

Supplemental: do the six characteristics say anything about universal truth?

1: you can develop ken without zen or vice-versa. You can act without thought or think without action.
2: you can have riki without ai.
3: you can kill people.
4: you can have hard without soft.
5: you can practice just alone or selfishly.
6: you can attack first.

In other words they're not truths, but just characteristics of our training.

[Plechazunga]

Good points David. The arguments I outlined are not just mine, but emerged from a general discussion. I didn't mean btw that the principles had been assembled by chance, I was saying that it's possible to conceive of a sequence of events that led to GJI being omitted from the official list (early in Kaiso's life he visits a fortune teller, who says all will be well if he formulates the five principles of Shorinji Kempo; Kaiso's scribe is copying down Kaiso's dictation from his sick-bed, and his pen runs out before GJI etc...)

Well said about the Universal truths - though James' point was in fact that they are NOT Universal truths.

On the other hand, isn't there another way of saying eg 'you can develop ken without zen or vice-versa' - 'you can go through life thinking you are developing ken without ever understanding that it is not truly 'ken' you are developing, for ken without zen is impossible...'?

[David Dunn]

Originally posted by Plechazunga
Well said about the Universal truths - though James' point was in fact that they are NOT Universal truths.

But they characterise a method of training to seek universal truth

Originally posted by Plechazunga
On the other hand, isn't there another way of saying eg 'you can develop ken without zen or vice-versa' - 'you can go through life thinking you are developing ken without ever understanding that it is not truly 'ken' you are developing, for ken without zen is impossible...'?

In a straightforward sense you can easily find examples of ken without zen, or zen without ken. Just translating it as 'kempo is zen', it is possible to just learn kempo techniques without trying to unify thought and action. Shorinji kempo has ken zen ichinyo at the core of its training method. On the whole though I agree, that ken zen ichinyo expresses a truth as well as a principle for training.