Taira Shinken Video

[ryukyu2000]

Dear Members:

I am trying to map my kobudo kata back to the video material of Taira Shinken Sensei released by Dometrich Sensei. The material I have trained in is from both the Shidokan and Shorin Ryu Shorinkan systems. By chance has anyone inventoried, in order, the kata demonstrated on the Taira Sensei's video tape?

Thank you.

Andy Morris

[Doug Daulton]

Andy,

Have you written Dometrich Sensei (<a href="mailto:kobudo@fuse.net">kobudo@fuse.net</a>)? She could provide you the list for which you are looking. However, she will likely advise you against trying to do the kata as demonstrated by Taira Sensei. That footage was shot when he was older and his ankle injury prominently effects his waza.

That footage was included for historical, not instructional purposes. To the best of my knowledge, no line directly descended from Taira does the kata as shown in the video.

Regards,

[E.elemental]

Originally posted by Doug Daulton
That footage was included for historical, not instructional purposes. To the best of my knowledge, no line directly descended from Taira does the kata as shown in the video.

Regards,

I know that the video not should be used for instructional-purposes but I tried to get one from Tsunami company which I read here at the forum sold the video. But they dont have it anymore.

How could I get one now? Could I as you said to Andy write to your Sensei asking her for advice? And do you know why they dont have it in stock anymore? It seems like an interesting video for most Kobudo-kas so I find it strange that they dont sell it anymore?

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by Patrik
How could I get one now? Could I as you said to Andy write to your Sensei asking her for advice? And do you know why they dont have it in stock anymore? It seems like an interesting video for most Kobudo-kas so I find it strange that they dont sell it anymore?

Patrik,

By all means, email Dometrich Sensei (kobudo@fuse.net). She has the entire remaining stock of Taira Shinken: Father of Ryukyu Kobudo . In addition, she has two new DVDs which cover Bo and Sai kihon.

While I am obviously biased , I strongly endorse the Taira documentary for any serious kobudoka. And, if you are in the Taira -> Akamine line, Dometrich Sensei's kihon DVDs are required viewing.

Regards,

Doug Daulton

PS: Below are a few links to reviews of the documentary.

1) Electronic Journal of Martial Arts and Sciences (Joseph Svinth)

2) Shotokan Research Society International (James R. Melton)

3) Michi Online (H.E. Davey)

[wsteigner]

Hi Doug;"No line directly descended from Taira
does the Kata as shown in the video".Could you
expand on this, are you talking embusen,
waza,or that the Taira Kata in the video are just
no longer done by your group or not done in the same manner as shown in the video.
thank you
bill steigner

[Doug Daulton]

Originally posted by wsteigner
Hi Doug;

"No line directly descended from Taira does the Kata as shown in the video".

Could you expand on this, are you talking embusen, waza, or that the Taira Kata in the video are just no longer done by your group or not done in the same manner as shown in the video.

thank you

bill steigner

Mr. Steinger,

I am happy to clarify. I am referring to embusen, waza and, in some cases, a kata's place in the curriculum.

Some of the kata, most notably the spear kata, are not part of the curriculum of any Taira line, at least as far as my research is concerned. I am almost certain Dometrich Sensei would confirm this as well.

The remaining kata are indicative of the forms as Taira understood and performed them during his mid-to-late teaching career and, as mentioned in the documentary, reflect his personal technique including the impact of his bad ankle.

As a result, what one sees on film is not neccesarily what one should strive to emulate, as it is not what Taira himself handed down to his students. To be clear, I do not mean Taira Sensei performs these techniques incorrectly.

Rather, like any teacher, as his skill continued to grow, so did his understanding of the waza. As a result, the waza he came to know and teach in the years after this footage was shot is different than what one sees on film.

In addition, any teacher with a known, uncorrectable impairment (damaged ankle) will tell his/her students not to adapt the adjustments he/she must make to accomodate that impairment. So, while the waza in the film was best for Taira Sensei's body, it is not the waza that he would have taught to and expected from his students.

For these reasons, Dometrich Sensei has always stressed that the footage was made available for historical purposes only and should not be used for training purposes.

I hope this helps.

Regards,

[wsteigner]

Thank you; I saw him one time at the dojo of
Shimabuku Tatsuo in Agena. Shimabuku Sensei
was doing Bo Kata and Taira Sensei was over seeing and offering advice so I knew he was up there
in the chain of command and found out after he left who it was. I was luckey to see him again
at a large demo do a bo Kata he was very impressive. Kanei Katsuyoshi Sensei who i studied
with also studied with Taira Sensei when he taught at Toguchi Seikichi Koza Dojo in the 60`s.
I really wish there was more film records of the older Sensei and i await the next tape from
your group.
thank you
bill steigner

[Victor Smith]

Andy,

A friend once sent me the Taira kata from the video, listing them for me but I can't locate it now.

But I have located Mario McKenna's review of the tape from JAMA.

He says the tape contains:

Shushi No Kon Sho
Sushi No KoN Dai
Chinen Shichiyanaka no Kon
Sakugawa no Kon Dai
Tsuken Shita Haku no Sai
Chantan Yara No Sai
Hamahiga No Sai
Hamahiga No Tonfua
Kyushaku Bo

as well as nunchaku techniques and many others.

Hope this helps.

In my opinion the value isn't so much the tapes, rather the movement dynamics represented, showing his way of the weapons.

[Doug Daulton]

Folks,

I asked Dometrich Sensei to have a look at this thread and make sure I was not steering you wrong. Essentially, she confirmed my earlier comments. In addition, she reminded me of something I had forgotten from our days in the studio.

While Mario's list of kata is accurate, none of the katas shown in the video contains the complete embusen. Like not including the kata names, this was an intentional choice during the production.

While this obfuscation was deliberate, our intention was not selfish or protectionist in nature. To paraphrase Sensei, "kata is just a dance if one has no waza". So, one might grab the embusen from the video, but their lack of understanding of the waza would be readily apparent. So, we were not trying to curb the blockheads out there who might try to "steal" the kata.

Rather, our intent was to protect the serious student from themselves. We've all seen folks take kata from a video and start doing it as if it were "gospel". While well-intentioned, it creates unneeded confusion and bad habits for the student, particularly if that student has no qualified teacher. Read previous posts for an explanation of this.

Again, I cannot emphasize strongly enough that the Taira footage should not be used for training. Very senior exponents will see things of value and interest in the kata, but that will only occur because they understand the waza first. Even then, this is more like shining a light on the evolutionary heritage of a kata than exposing the "real truth" of it.

Best of luck in your training,

[E.elemental]

Today I recieved a copy of "Taira Shinken - Father of Ryukyu Kobudo". And since it is a documentary I would recommend it to everyone interested in Karate and Kobujutsu/Kobudo, especially those from the Taira lineage. For them its almost mandatory!