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Thread: "a committed Christian could never train in this style with a good conscience"

  1. #1
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    Angry "a committed Christian could never train in this style with a good conscience"

    Hello all,

    I have just read the biggest pile of nonsense here. Go to page 5 of 6 and find an article so littered with fallacies it isn't true.

    It's basically an attack on the Buddhist links and history of Shorinji Kempo. The website is the "Gospel Martial Arts Union."

    Enough of this - I'm going out to train.
    John McCollum
    Glasgow University Shorinji Kempo Club.

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    The writer of the article has used a few anecdotes and the one story about Shorinji Kempo, to rubbish all or any Martial Arts that make claims to trace lineage to temples... There is a problem with factual research. The same facts come up over and over again. And each new book becomes a source for quotes for the next author.

    The ruling to name the organisation "Nippon Shorinji Kempo" is mentioned all the time. Most writers manage to suggest that the legal ruling put an end to some dodgy or fraudulent claims. It is used as a weapon to beat us with and it is something that was sorted out 30 years ago...

    Someone on this forum mentioned it a while back, with the question "how come we're not called Nippon Shorinji Kempo now?". I have wondered this. I've also wondered if there is an alternative commentary to the Legal Proceedings of 1970-whatever. If the finger-pointing is going to go on forever, then it might be worth getting the answers ready.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  3. #3
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    Load of old cr*p! Anyone up for some dojo bust'in?
    Sean Dixie

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    Several years ago I came across a web site set up by the exectutive director of the Gospel Martial Arts Union in which he claimed to have, among many other black belts, a 3-dan in Shorinji Kempo and a teaching certification from the "Shorinji Kempo Federation". After I questioned him about it, he apologized with the following response:

    My third degree is in Nippon ShorinjiRYU Kempo. I received my sandan in 1994 at Anderson University from Dr. James Pitts, under the authority of an American master, Olin Lani. Originally part of Shinan Masayoshi Kori Hisataka's group in Japan, they broke off in 1988 when O'Sensei past away and his son took over.
    He changed the original web site, but it is no longer up. He invited me to join the GMAU, but I declined.
    Gary Dolce
    Ann Arbor Branch
    WSKO
    Ann Arbor, Michigan, USA
    http://www.shorinjikempo.com

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    You can add the word 'christian' as many times as you like, it still sounds like a bunch of 'martial Fartists' to me.
    Sean Dixie

  6. #6
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    "Gospel Martial Arts Union"?
    Gaakkkk....

    It does say something though (not what was intended, obciously) when the only way our detractors can attack us is to tell lies about us...

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    "a committed Christian could never train in this style with a good conscience"
    The committed ones are not a problem it is the ones wandering the streets that worry me.
    Kurt Forbes
    Alabama Shorinji Kempo

  8. #8
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Originally posted by Random
    "a committed Christian could never train in this style with a good conscience"
    The committed ones are not a problem it is the ones wandering the streets that worry me.
    Kurt made a funny!
    Can't be fun, being a Shorinji Kenshi inthe Bible Belt...

  9. #9
    Plechazunga Guest

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    I'd like to know more about this O'Sensei...Irish chap was he? When we went up to Glasgow a couple of years ago I was honoured to meet his colleague MacInukie, but never the great man himself.

  10. #10
    Kimpatsu Guest

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    Originally posted by Plechazunga
    I'd like to know more about this O'Sensei...Irish chap was he? When we went up to Glasgow a couple of years ago I was honoured to meet his colleague MacInukie, but never the great man himself.
    MacInukie? Isn't he MacIgotey's cousin?

  11. #11
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    Just for the sake of clarity, could someone please quote the lies and truth, point by point, just so we can all see what's what. So that we come away more informed than the silly man that wrote the article. Fight lies with facts, not just indignant cries of "liar".



    "The committed ones are not a problem it is the ones wandering the streets that worry me."
    Nice one Kurt! My thoughts entirely.
    David Noble
    Shorinji Kempo (1983 - 1988)
    I'll think of a proper sig when I get a minute...

    For now, I'm just waiting for the smack of the Bo against a hard wooden floor....

  12. #12
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    Default oh my god (sic)

    OK, I'm not going to do a full point by point rebuttal (I can't be arsed frankly), but on a few points which leaped out at me in this article (amazingly ill informed as it is in general..)

    the article asserts that Doshin So claimed to have been 'visited by the spirit of Bodhidharma'. I seem to remember that Doshin So said that he had a dream in which something like this happened. I can appreciate that 'commited Christians' might have a difficulty in drawing a distinction between dreams and reality (let's face it, the Bible is full of this kind of stuff), but as far as I'm aware Doshin So had no such problem..

    the article claims that describing Shorinji Kempo as a form of Zen was a 'sneaky' way of circumventing the occupation authorities' prohibition on the practice of martial arts. If this were true, I would applaud Kaiso's ingenuity, but the way the article goes on to talk about Zen 'worship' makes it pretty clear that the author's comprehension of profoundly different models of religious belief and practice is premised on his Christian viewpoint. Nothing wrong with that per se, but it does make me disinclined to take him very seriously as an authority on these matters.

    Shorinji Kempo has 'no katas'. Flat out wrong, and such a basic factual error again detracts from the article's already low stock of credibility.

    There's some discusssion about the name of Shorinji Kempo and whether Kaiso was or was not a master of traditional Shaolin kung fu. I don't feel up to wading into the nomenclature, but as i understand it Kaiso never claimed to be teaching traditional kung fu as the article claims. He was teaching a new martial art synthesised from his knowledge of preceding forms, which looked back to the traditions of the Shaolin temple. The specific inspiration from the famous wall painting was more in terms of the training methodology and the centrality of pair form practice.

    As to whether a committed Christian can practice Shorinji kempo or follow kongo Zen, that's surely down to the Christian?

    Tony leith

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    Hi All,

    Easy as it may be to get wound up by this factually and intellectually inept bit of self-righteous cack, I'd advise caution to anyone itching to attack its source. I came across it several months ago and this issue (as well as a few others) is very much in hand and being dealt with via the proper channels.

    Later,
    George Hyde

    UCL, ULU, SOAS Dojo
    British Shorinji Kempo Federation

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    [Deleted after George's post]
    David Dunn
    Cambridge Dojo
    BSKF

  15. #15
    Plechazunga Guest

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    Originally posted by George Hyde
    Hi All,

    Easy as it may be to get wound up by this factually and intellectually inept bit of self-righteous cack, I'd advise caution to anyone itching to attack its source.
    For God's sake say what you feel Sensei, we're all friends here, there's no point hiding behind pleasantries.

    Originally posted by Kimpatsu
    MacInukie? Isn't he MacIgotey's cousin?
    No, MacItembin's is MacInukie's cousin. You're thinking of O'Shigote.

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