Videos: DR Seishinkai - Hiden Mokuroku, Omote & Ura Kata

[Kendoguy9]

hello everyone,

it's nice to have our Aikijujutsu board back up i'll start it off with a question. at Tozando (the iaito people) on their website they have various Daito-ryu tapes. they have a set that contains all 118 techniques of the Hiden Mokuroku that mentions the late Mr. Tokimune Takedas name. i emailed them and all the fellow could tell me was that his name was the only name on the boxes. has anyone seen these tapes to confirm this? i have had the pleasure of seeing tapes with Kondo sensei, various members from the Takumakai, Kodokai, and Roppokai, but never have i seen Mr. Takeda. any comments welcomed

gambatte!!!

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Chris Covington
Daito-ryu study group
Shinkendo
Kodokan judo

[Gene McGloin]

Hi Chris,

Stan Pranin has made an ever so subtle comment about these tapes at this AikidoJournal.com website. If you haven't already been to this site, go to the Bulletin Board and I believe you'll find posts about these tapes in the general Daito Ryu section.

[Gary Gabelhouse]

Dear Kendo Guy,

This is my first e-budo post. So...

I have a tape of Ohgami, Kenkichi Hanshi (8th Dan) who was of the Takeda line of Daitoryu.

Takeda - Hisa - Ohgami

It is in Japanese, but very good quality and very good instruction. I think it is sold only in Japan (picked mine up on a training trip to Japan with Ohgami-Hanshi). I am going back to Japan next month (July) or in August. I would be happy to pick up a copy for you.

Best Regards,
Gary Gabelhouse

[O'Neill]

I was informed that the sensei teaching the kata on the seishinkan tapes had bad knees and this affects him to this day. Not an excuse but it may explain a few things.

[Nathan Scott]

Hello,

The tapes in question feature Mr. Arisawa Gunpachi (he demonstrates most the techniques, and is the one with the bad knees. To be honest, the knees are not the only issue in his performance) and Mr. Kobayashi Yoichi (SAD secretary) as uke. There are also introductions and a small amount of advanced techniques performed by Mr. Matsuo Sano.

The tapes were produced by the "Nihon Daito ryu Aikibudo Seishinkai". I do not recall seeing any footage at all of Takeda Tokimune in them.
Regards,

[Kendoguy9]

Hello all,

Well, I think I am officially no longer worried about the Seishinkai group at all (not that they worried me much to begin with). Why? Well, it is my opinion that they will soon perish by their own swords and bad training habits.

A little background: A friend from South Africa had purchased the Ura DVDs to see other Daito-ryu people. He burned copies and sent them to me. I would never purchase anything from the Seishinkai because I see this as support for them and their methods, but I have no problem with burned copies Anyway, on the Ikkajo ura DVD they do the hanza handachi with kodachi. As they train/demo I noticed that the young uke's sword keeps slipping about half way out of the saya. When the kata was over he'd scramble to put it back in. At first I thought it was a little funny, but it kept happening. Then the thing falls all the way out in mid throw! I'm sorry but this is dangerous and bad form! I'm assuming that the sword is mugito, but even then the kensaki can still hurt you! This was irresponsible and dangerous! I understand sometimes a blade might come loose but nearly every time?!? That is why there is post production editing and multiple takes. Small wood shims in the saya can keep it from falling out. I have done this to some of my training swords with good effect. Shame on Kato because he just sat their and watched like it was no big deal! He should be embarrassed to have his face on this video!

So back to my original point... if they continue to train like this they will more then likely fall on top of their own blades and kill themselves. They will Darwin their own lineage. Sloppy. Sad.

[judasith]

I guess you're right. Unfortunately the uke is a young and inexperienced guy, who, by the way, has stopped practicing Daito-ryu now.

I also believe it wasn't a very good martial attitude in that case, but in my opinion, also Mr. Kondo's way of using the sword in his videos would make a kendoka smile.

The point are the techniques in itself which you have certainly noted are very good.

From my point of view, also seeing Mr. Kondo's students doing Yonkajo in idori (while kneeling) speaks for itself and we don't have to worry anymore about him (Yonkajo has only Tachiai - standing - techniques), BUT I believe this is not fruitful talk.

If you will come to one of our Seminars in Europe or in the U.s., you can prove to yourself and to others that our training methods and seriousness is very martial and good.

[Kendoguy9]

Dear Giacomo,

I knew you'd be on here!

"If you will come to one of our Seminars in Europe or in the U.s., you can prove to yourself and to others that our training methods and seriousness is very martial and good."

To be honest if I made a trip to Europe I wouldn't spend my time training Daito-ryu. I don't care how hard you train or how martial you think you are, I just hope you don't hurt yourselves.

"From my point of view, also seeing Mr. Kondo's students doing Yonkajo in idori..."

I'm sorry that Yonkajo sitting upsets you so much. At least no one will get cut or stabbed... but you're right this is fruitless.

"I guess you're right. Unfortunately the uke is a young and inexperienced guy, who, by the way, has stopped practicing Daito-ryu now."

I hope your organization has learned from these DVDs, how NOT to train with swords. All joking and bantering aside, using swords is dangerous as any of the kenjutsuka here know. Sloppiness like this should be avoided or someone could be hurt. In Daito-ryu we all deal with injuries, but a sword cut that is avoidable would really be a shame.

[Nathan Scott]

Me, I think making technical videos is a bad idea in any case...

And BTW, thank God Ron Duncan hasn't figured out that you can edit mistakes out of video footage!

Regards,

[Scott Harrington]

Regarding the Seishinkan / Daitokai tapes (available at www.budovideos.com) I can say that they are a ‘must-have’ for any Daito-ryu or Aikido student.

1. Content – they contain the complete Hiden Mokuroku of the Daito-ryu curriculum, with such neat things as kasa waza (umbrella techniques), defense against jutte, introduction of multiple entangling waza, and so forth. Plus a small look at the sword work handed down from Takeda Sokaku, it does cover a WIDE range of techniques. Listed as 118 techniques of the HM, it has both omote (front) and ura (back) versions, some a subtle change of a pin, some a vastly different waza greatly expanding that 118.

2. Quality – excellent video, well-positioned camera shots with multiple views and interspersed with ‘pointer’ comments on what is important, plus shots of students at various levels of skill doing the waza. The downside is the clear audio is all in Japanese.

3. Performance – first look shows this is a more jujutsu slant on Daito-ryu. Not the subtle techniques of the ‘aiki’ Kodo branches, there is a feeling of a practical art you can use. Tokimune Takeda had been a policeman and one can see a stamp on this interpretation of “it has to work” on the curriculum. From Pranin’s work and accounts of people who had met him, physical conditioning (and callouses) were important to Tokimune’s view of the art. Perhaps future videos would have a more ‘aiki’ feel as other scrolls of Daito-ryu are looked at in depth.

4. Conclusion – if you don’t have these there is a hole in your collection. For the Aikidoka, this is a great way to see the primary technique that Ueshiba used to convert to his version. Having watched the tapes and been on the mat with Kondo Sensei, certain simplifications have been introduced to Aikido that while they may be limiting the ‘combative’ factor certainly make it much, much safer for uke. For the Daito-ryu student, it is a chance to start to see the grand overview of this unique art. There are many styles out there but this is the ground floor that they (the mainstream and other branches) had to get thru. Some styles have strayed from the HM but it is the primer that Takeda Sokaku taught to the first-level student.

5. Politics – this series is made by long-time students of Tokimune Takeda, late headmaster of Daito-ryu. With his passing it was transferred to Kondo Sensei, also a long-time student. Any petty comments regarding the techniques and performance reflect back to Tokimune Takeda who taught Daito-ryu to both parties. I have private video of Kondo Sensei teaching ippon-dori and flubs it while trying to get the student to get the waza. (How many times has that happened to us all with that white belt?) Does that mean he is untalented? I completely think not, especially having seen and felt his polished techniques. I have personally seen a very highly regarded American aikijujutsu master get ‘bit’ (that translates as a cut) when doing a weapon disarm against a live blade. My thoughts were, “Murphy got him” and great respect for him for going against a live sword and only getting a nick.

While I may get them broken, I must give these tapes two thumbs up for a detailed look at one section of the fragmented Daito-ryu.

Scott Harrington
Co-author of “Aiki Toolbox: Exploring the Magic of Aikido