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Thread: Fusen ryu jujutsu

  1. #1
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    Default Fusen ryu jujutsu

    Dear Forum,
    I was interested in any information pertaining to Fusen ryu. I am interested in all areas of the ryu, especially the newaza aspect. Recently I have heard that much of the newaza in the Kodokan derived from Fusen ryu any elaboration on this subject would be greatly appreciated. Thankyou

    sincerely,
    Brian Hodges
    Renshi
    GWNBF/KJJR
    Fudoshin Dojo-cho

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    Yukio Tani and Taro Miyake both trained in Fusen Ryu during the 1890s; Tani went on to become a leader of the London Budokwai ( http://budokwai.org ) and both Tani and Miyake were well-known professional wrestlers (Tani in Britain and Miyake in Britain and the US).

    In a couple days an article about Tani by Graham Noble will appear in Journal of Combative Sports ( http://ejmas.com ) and this contains just about everything I've ever seen regarding the Fusen Ryu. (Okay, it's only a couple paragraphs, but that's still everything I've ever seen.)

    Meanwhile, if you have access to Japanese-language sources, names to look for include Torajiro Tanabe and Matauemon Tanabe; they were brothers, and the latter was headmaster of the system in the 1880s and by all accounts a superior ground man. Indeed, his victories are what convinced Kano to incorporate more groundwork into Kodokan judo.


  3. #3
    MarkF Guest

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    Joe has the most complete and current info, but if you wish, try http://www.bstkd.com/JudoHistory/HistoryEight.htm

    http://www.judo1.net/ju01002.htm .

    This is about all there is on the net. Most is copied or borrowed from this basic history, so for a lot more, try Joe's website concerning the Tani article when available. Sorry I couldn't be more helpful.

    Mark

    BTW: If you do a web search, as I just did, the Tanabe brothers are mentioned, and there is information on German language sites, aside from the Japanese Language sources. The only school of Fusen ryu I have heard is in Germany, but it has been a while, and I do not have that name anymore.






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    Thanks for your replies, I enjoyed the information.

    sincerely,
    Brian Hodges
    Renshi
    GWNBF/KJJR
    Fudoshin Dojo-cho

  5. #5
    Kit LeBlanc Guest

    Default Fusen Ryu

    Daniel Lee from Koryu Australia (the link is on the Koryu.com site) provided me with some info on Fusen ryu. They are still active.

    The descriptions of the techniques did not sound like they are that heavy ne-waza, though I have heard much the same things regarding that portion of their curriculum (only from Cunningham's information, though). Can't wait for the EJMAS article!! I would love to explore the ryuha further if it has such an emphasis on ne-waza. Love that groundwork!

    Kit LeBlanc

  6. #6
    MarkF Guest

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    Hi, Kit,
    I think there should be some infor on fusen on furyu.com, as well. As for Cunningham's info, it usually seems "light" as mostly coming from other websites. He claims he got his judo history "kuden" at the Kodokan, and at the same time he claims Yanagi ryu background.

    The only schools I could find which are strictly fusen ryu were in Germany, but there may be a lot more today as it is catching on again, mainly because fusen was the only school to "trash" Kano ryu Jiu-jitsu. It was supposedly the newaza which did them in, as the newaza from the kito school was difficult to learn, and mostly was avoided.

    It does specialize in newaza far more than any other school, although the early newaza of judo was from the kito school, and later western wrestling. The shimmeisho of the gokyo no waza of judo are pretty much wrestling attacks, as single and double leg takedown make up a good portions of these new throws. Check out http://www.kodokan.org for more up to date and better waza than what is found in Kodokan Judo of the 1980's with the same nage. It may suprise you that a throw such as morote gari is more of a shoulder throw, but in fact in simply a double leg tackle, lift and using the right shoulder to complete the throw. Another would be kuchiki toashi, which is a single leg takedown with the palm of the hand creating and achieving kake (one-hand drop).

    I have hear that Gene LeBell has a new book out which is loaded with stuff, in which he prefaces with "this is not legal in judo" and proceeds to show you every gatame there is which isn't "legal." Wink, wink, hraruumph, cough cough.

    Mark

    BTW: If you or someone you know speaks or reads German, there is a site in particular which seems to have more info then any other. My german is very weak as most comes by way of Yiddish.


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    Default

    Originally posted by MarkF
    I think there should be some infor on fusen on furyu.com, as well. As for Cunningham's info, it usually seems "light" as mostly coming from other websites. He claims he got his judo history "kuden" at the Kodokan, and at the same time he claims Yanagi ryu background.
    I don't think he claims Yanagi Ryu, but Takagi Ryu.
    George Kohler

    Genbukan Kusakage dojo
    Dojo-cho

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    Originally posted by MarkF

    BTW: If you or someone you know speaks or reads German, there is a site in particular which seems to have more info then any other. My german is very weak as most comes by way of Yiddish.
    I stumbled here by almost by accident, as I don't know anything about Judo (Took it as a kid, up to orange belt) and (frankly) am not too interested in it, but if you would give me the URL and info about what your looking for, I would be happy to help.
    Joachim Hoss
    Cologne, Germany

    Occam's Razor - A weapon for true martial artists.

  9. #9
    Kit LeBlanc Guest

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    Mark F

    Good to hear from you. I believe Daniel mentioned that Fusen-ryu has a section of taryu shiai waza, and that the system was more a self defense type method taught to commoners than a "battlefield" art, though the gokui contain information about other weapons, poisons, etc. Sounds like a fascinating school. I would love to see some of their old newaza stuff.

    Tell me, what types of techniques are included in Kito-ryu newaza? I always thought Judo ne waza came from Tenjin Shinyo-ryu, but have increasingly been hearing it was from Kito-ryu.

    Kit

  10. #10
    MarkF Guest

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    Hi, Kit,
    Nice to hear from you, too. This is getting mighty close to areas I am just not knowledgable enough to give precise techniques, but basically most original newaza did come from the kito school, I believe. The Ko shiki no kata shows a few of the takedowns which is done by a few kata specialists, and that I am not, but this is the essence of judo, omote and ura, equals kito ryu. Much of the ate and atemi no waza is from the tenjin shinyo school. It may be that tenjin shinyo added more technique than I realized so I certainly will not deny that.

    I will get the german website which is fusen ryu, and yes, they do hold shiai, that much I understood. While fusen probably did encourage more groundwork, Western wrestling (free style) was also studied by Kano. I wish I could tell you more, but check out the Ko shiki no kata section of Kodokan Judo.

    BTW: Yes, It was Takagi Ryu which Steve Cunningham is associated, but some question this part of his background. I apologize for the error. This isn't the first time I have said the wrong school of jujutsu.

    Mark




  11. #11
    MarkF Guest

    Default Fusen Again

    Kit,
    According to someone who emailed me privately, it started from this:

    If this Swedish site is correct,
    http://www.troms-budo-krets.net/jujitsu.htm, Fusen Ryu is an offshoot of
    Sosuishi Ryu. The latter dates to 1650. The supposition is reasonable, as
    Tanabe was said to be the fourth headmaster, meaning that Fusen Ryu
    probably wasn't much over a century old. Here is the Sosuishi Ryu site.
    There were some serious changes ca. 1833. Speculation: possibly this is
    where whoever named Fusen decided to split?


    I don't want to name him, as Joe (whoops!), well you get the idea.

    I think the misconception concerning fusen ryu is that they beat the Kodokan ryu jiu jitsu with their groundwork, a message taken seriously by Kano, then this means fusen is mostly groundwork. This, I think, is the mistake, and fusen did get that reputation.

    Anyway, If the site is correct, and others say it split from takenouchi(SP), along with at least a dozen more.

    Joachim, I could not, despite searching every conceivable site with this name, could not locate one specific to this in German. However, it may have been this site, and dismissed it because I thought it was German. Thank you for your offer of help.

    Thanks to those who offered.

    Mark

    BTW: There was one which listed Fusen ryu as one of many from Takenouchi, probably the date mentioned by Joe. Other than that, I could not find one partial to fusen ryu, although last year there was one from a school in Germany, but was in English.

    If anyone reads this who speaks or reads the language, anthing you may find on Fusen ryu would be a help. Thanks.






    [Edited by MarkF on 10-13-2000 at 02:03 AM]

  12. #12
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    Lightbulb Re: Fusen Again

    Originally posted by MarkF
    [B]Kit,
    According to someone who emailed me privately, it started from this:

    If this Swedish site is correct,
    http://www.troms-budo-krets.net/jujitsu.htm, Fusen Ryu is an offshoot of
    Sosuishi Ryu.
    </B>
    It is not Swedish, it is Norweigian.

    But the languages are very similar.

    /Anders

  13. #13
    Ben Reinhardt Guest

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    Is the Fusen Ryu still extant ? I am refering to the Fusen Ryu that defeated Kodokan Judo in a contest around 1900 ? I understand Fusen Ryu has as a root art Takenouchi Ryu. Is that true ?

    Thanks,

    Ben Reinhardt

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    Default 2000 fusen-ryu images (enbu-kai)

    Fusen-ryu images can be found at a Japanese website which features the 6th Kobudo Taikai (Osaka) with pictures of katori shinto-ryu, tennen rishin-ryu, enshin-ryu, owarikan-ryu, shibukawa-ryu, fusen-ryu, igaryuha shoshin-ryu, katayama houki-ryu & tenjin myoshin-ryu, araki-ryu, hontai yoshin-ryu, muhi muteki-ryu, chikubushima-ryu and nito shinkage-ryu at http://www.hoops.ne.jp/~mshirou/o.kobutaikai.html

    the specific page address is:

    http://www.hoops.ne.jp/~mshirou/husenn/husenn.html
    Daniel Lee

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    Thumbs up

    Hi Daniel,

    Great sites! Did you receive my recent reply e-mail? I've recently relocated within NSW and I've been off-line for nearly three months. I had about 400 e-mail waiting to download when I got back on-line. Sorry for the dealy in getting back to you.

    All the best,

    Paul Steadman

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