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Thread: Fusen ryu jujutsu

  1. #76
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    Bo-staff and numchuck skills...you bet..and his brother was training to be a cage fighter.

    Something about a Liger as well...

    Aaron Fields

  2. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by johan smits
    the idea that Fusen-ryu specialized in newaza seems not correct. There is a big chance that Tanabe sensei of Fusen-ryu was a newaza expert but that is something different. It is quite possible Tanabe sensei contributed a lot to newaza of Kodokan judo but that is not the same as that Fusen-ryu contributed.

    I have always wondered if Fusen-ryu played such a heavy role in the formation of the curriculum of the Kodokan how come it is never credited for that. No English source ever claims any schools other than Tenjin Shinyo-ryu and Kito-ryu. This is from memory but I am pretty sure of it.
    Now this is interesting, because that ties in with my own impression from reading between the lines in all the judo history I have read. But I am no scholar and admit to knowing virtually nothing about the technical curriculum aspects of koryu. I'd love to know more.

    Mark's post was interesting too - I have only ever heard that Fusen won those encounters outright. But - if as Mark implied, the Fusen guys basically pulled guard and stalled, I can see how that would have annoyed the Kodokan competitors intensely. I can also see that would have inspired development of newaza techniques (or *whisper* maybe just shiai rules...) to deal with that occurrence. Anyone who has ever spent 6 futile minutes of a BJJ comp trying to pass some stallers closed guard will sympathise.

    ---

    Re. Kid Pelligro and 'The Gracie Way' - while a thoroughly entertaining read, Kid is a long, long way from being an independent, objective commentator.

    Actually, the best BJJ history (from a BJJ perspective) that I have read is in "Mastering Jujitsu" by Renzo Gracie and John Danaher. From memory, there was some historical interpretation that was open to debate, but overall it was a remarkably open-minded and objective piece. The technical bits of the book aren't bad either.

    ---

    Aaron - that post summed it all up nicely, and made me laugh too.
    Cheers,

    Mike
    No-Kan-Do

  3. #78
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    Talking

    Mike and everyone,

    There is not much info on Fusen-ryu but visit Bushinjuku.com if you haven't already. It is a great site and contains some info on Fusen-ryu and other stuff.
    Any questions on Fusen-ryu are best put there is my quess.

    For Aaron: you've got mail uhh, just to let you know. (can't get these damned smilies to work)

    Best,

    Johan Smits

    (okay the damned smiley worked)

  4. #79
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    Mike,

    I'm glad someone besides myself thinks I am funny. Tounge always firmly in cheek, is one of my rules for life.

    Johan I have not recieved any mail.

    Aaron Fields

  5. #80
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    Unhappy

    Aaron,

    You should have now, if not I'll contact you this week.

    Best Regards,

    Johan Smits

  6. #81
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    Default suwari vs ne-waza

    If you want to know about Fsen-ry ask Scott over at bushinjuku.com, he is very up on the art as he studied it with Matsumoto-sensei. There is a whole forum section on it. From what he told me, Fsen-ry does not have a section on ne-waza perse, but tachi-waza and suwari-waza that goes into ne-waza positions/situations and when doing randori you get to explore or do more ne-waza that’s in the "kata".

    Scott’s teacher Matsumoto-sensei unfortunately stopped teaching Fsen-ry to focus on Enshin-ry Iai Suemono-Giri Kenp, a sword style that he heads. On a side note, this is the mainline, not the breakaway from Tanaka Fumon.

    Maybe one reason Scott doesn’t list Tanabe Matauemon on his site, as there was a split in the style, both splits ending up back in Inoue Kazutoshi. Not sure if there is a current ske, or just shihan-ke/shihan. Fsen-ry is also not part of the Nihon Kobud Kykai.

    Lineage: Motsugai Taiosh Fsen (founder) - Takeda Sadaii Yoshitaka - Tanabe Torajir Yoshisada – split occurs
    Split 1 - Tanbe Yoshishir Yoshimitu - Nakayama Eisabur Yoshyiuki - Nakayama Kaza
    Split 2 - Tanbe Matauemon - Yoshida Saiz - Inoue Atagoware
    Back into - Inoue Kazutoshi Yoshitsugu
    Inoue’s lineage:
    Line 1- Yoshino Haruo - Uchitani Eiji (Bicch Nagao-den)
    Line 2 - Masumoto Takamasa (bunke, quit to focus on Enshin-ry)

    If there is any other branches I am not aware of them, info is from Scott’s site and Ueno-den booklet.

    I have seen a video of Matsumoto-sensei and two of his students performing the Taihen-no-waza level and it is truly a shame he stopped. His jjutsu was amazing and very precise and sharp with lots of flow.

    From what I saw, there was tachi-waza "standing techniques" and suwari-waza "seated techniques" that both had some brutal sutemi-nage that resulted in some ne-waza positions. But since it’s a kory jjutsu style you want to finish it as quick as possible and not wrestle around for a 30min in a regulated match. So lots of finishing strikes, joint locks, chokes, tant disarms and or stabbing the guy once you pin him.

    How much Tanabe Matauemon contributed to the formulation of a ne-waza curriculum for the Kdkan that would end up being focused on by Ksen jd and GJJ/BJJ we may never know.

    Here is a picture of a ne-waza position one ends up in a suwari-gata from the taihen-no-waza level of Fsen-ry.

    Hope this helps.
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

  7. #82
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    Hello Eric,

    its possible to buy the Video of Matsumoto-sensei or get a copy?

    Best regards,
    Michael Reinhardt

  8. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cron
    Hello Eric,

    its possible to buy the Video of Matsumoto-sensei or get a copy?

    Best regards,
    Sorry it was a gift and private. I would have to ask permission. Hope you understand and can respect that, thanks.
    Eric Weil
    "Kuji first, Taijutsu last"

  9. #84
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    Hi Eric,

    well, no problem

    But, another question: exists video material about Fusen ryu?

    Regards,
    Michael Reinhardt

  10. #85
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    Hi Michael,

    There must be something on the Bushinjuku.com site.

    Best Regards,

    Johan Smits

  11. #86
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    Hi Johan,

    thanks for the adress, I saw the movie.
    Looks very interesting.

    I saw a short demonstration here in Germany. Maybe its possible that an seminar will be in march.

    Regards,
    Michael Reinhardt

  12. #87
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    Hi Michael,

    There's Fusen-ryu in Germany? Could you give some details?


    Best Regards,

    Johan Smits

  13. #88
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    Hi Johan,

    well, normaly Fusen ryu is not learned here in Germany.
    My Iaido Sensei learned under Inoue Sensei.

    A few years ago, he taught Fusen ryu in Bremen.
    At the moment we try to organize a Fusen ryu seminar.

    Best Regards,
    Michael Reinhardt

  14. #89
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    Michael,

    Give Henry my best regards, we still train some of the kata he taught us.

    best,

    Johan Smits

  15. #90
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    Hi Johan,

    wow, I dont know that you are a friend of Henry!

    If the seminar will be in Bremen, I will inform you.

    Best regards,
    Michael Reinhardt

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