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Thread: Faux Pas

  1. #1
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    Default Faux Pas

    I enjoyed the movie and I count it money well spent. I especially enjoyed Watanabe Ken. He has one of those very expressive faces that don't really demand dialog, like Morgan Freeman, Sean Connery, Takakura Ken, and Mifune Toshiro.

    Nevertheless, as someone somewhat familiar with the times and history depicted, I couldn't help but notice some errata:

    1. "Bushido"--As I understand it, the term didn't come into widespread usage in Japan until after 1911, with the translation INTO Japanese of Nitobe Inazo's "Bushido."

    2. Spinning back kicks in swordplay?

    3. "Put down your KATANA"--when Cruise was holding a BOKKEN.

    No doubt others sharper than I found more.
    Don J. Modesto
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    http://theaikidodojo.com/

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    Default Re: Faux Pas

    Originally posted by don
    back kicks in swordplay?

    3. "Put down your KATANA"--when Cruise was holding a BOKKEN.
    FWIW:

    From http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/show...477#post250477

    quote:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Originally posted by Yagyu Kenshi
    My old sensei....during training he would always use the term katana, no matter what we were using at the time....His sensei, during a seminar I attended, did exactly the same thing, and he was a VERY traditional older Japanese gentleman.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
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    http://theaikidodojo.com/

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    Lest we forget whenever they performed noto...or some reasonable facsimile thereof....there was always the sound of metal against metal as they put the katana back into the saya. I don't know about you, but never once have any of my katana made that noise...and if they did, I suspect I would be a bit miffed.
    Regards,
    Matthew Ash

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    Originally posted by HanashiBugeisha
    ....there was always the sound of metal against metal as they put the katana back into the saya.
    Not to mention the constant 'shwinggg' on drawing during the battle scenes as the samurai charged toward their enemies.

    It's amazing, considering how much in this movie was good, the number of stupid things they seemed to feel _had_ to be in there...like silly sound effects and black-suited ninja with ninjato....
    David Anderson
    Calgary, Alberta


    "Swords are the rosary of Aikido"

    D. H. Skoyles Sensei 04/03/01

    Nakayamakai KoAikido dojo

  5. #5
    K20Death Guest

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    I dont know much at all about Kendo or Bushido. But the movie was great. Tom Cruise did alright with the amont of time that he had to study and learn proper sword fighting. The fact that its a movie you need the sound fx. Watching a movie with out proper sound editing is no fun at all.

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    I know a few foley artists (the folks who make the "unusual" sound effects in many movies) and they've told me that in many cases, they HAVE to make the "wrong" sound because so many moviegoers EXPECT that type of sound. More to the point, the reason you hear a hammer cocked on a Glock (hammerless pistol) or hear metal on metal when a sword is withdrawn is because the film is using stock sounds that are labeled "sword being drawn," etc. (at least on smaller productions, from what I've been told) and they are in most cases NOT experts in what actual weapons sound like. (Also, from MY experience, the sound of a weapon being fired in real life is very different than almost EVERY movie I've seen, yet I still enjoy hearing as well as seeing my favorite movies.

    BTW - did the Japanese match the subtitles when he said to put down the sword (referring to the bokken)?

    Carlos
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

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    Originally posted by Carlos Estrella
    BTW - did the Japanese match the subtitles when he said to put down the sword (referring to the bokken)?
    What I recall is the term "katana" spoken when Cruise was holding a BOKKEN, a point addressed by Yagyu Kenshi in my second post above. Don't recall the subtitles. Hope this helps.
    Don J. Modesto
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  8. #8
    MarioS Guest

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    Spoiler Alert below (though i assume it's a given in this thread)









    When Cruise's character gives the Emperor the katana towards the end of the film. The Emperor begins to hand it back to him in a way you'd hand it to someone you trust. But then the camera angle switches and it's the other way around.

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    Default smokin'

    In the 1870's the firearms would have been using black powder as opposed to nitrocellulose based powders that were developed in the 1880's. Black powder generates large volumes of smoke.

    You can see the smoke in some scenes (e.g. in the background of the riders as they smash through the skirmish line, the cannons firing), but for many scenes the amount of smoke generated was _way_ under what you would expect. Any time a massed volley was fired we should have seen a wall of smoke that you would have a hard time seeing through. The gatling guns would have provided enough smoke that their crews (and anyone near them) would not have been able to see a thing.

    I can understand why they did it. The battle scenes where the smoke was reduced would have lost a great deal of impact if you couldn't see anything for the smoke. It was a reasonable compromise IMHO.

    Mark Kruger
    Last edited by kruger; 9th December 2003 at 01:10.

  10. #10
    K20Death Guest

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    This is kinda off topic but has anyone here ever read this book? I was thinking about getting it.

    http://www.koryubooks.com/store/samuraicode.html

    Im looking for a book that has a good in-depth look at Japanese History in the 17th and 18th Century.

  11. #11
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    The Budoshoshinshu is an old text. After a brief search on Google, I found a free translation available here:

    http://www.geocities.com/lowly_swordsman/classics.html

    It's been a while since I've read it, but if I recall correctly, it was a series of essays during a period of time when the Samurai were on the decline.

    Cheers,
    Tim Scott

  12. #12
    K20Death Guest

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    Thanks for your help. Does anyone else have anything to add on Japanese History during this time period?

  13. #13
    K20Death Guest

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    After reading threw some of the text, I noticed that he refers to Samurai and the time in the past tense. I thought the text was translated from someone who lived during that time period and made daily journals? Im a little lost.

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    E-Budo rules require that you sign your posts with your real name.
    David F. Craik

  15. #15
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    Originally posted by K20Death
    This is kinda off topic but has anyone here ever read this book? I was thinking about getting it.

    http://www.koryubooks.com/store/samuraicode.html

    Im looking for a book that has a good in-depth look at Japanese History in the 17th and 18th Century.
    Coverning prehistory to present:

    The Cambridge History of Japan 6 Volume Set by John Whitney Hall

    http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0521657...=3Q2KX809ZIEL2

    17 th Century (I think)

    Chushingura, the tale of the 47 RONIN

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    16 th Century

    The Culture of Civil War in Kyoto by Mary Elizabeth Berry

    http://www.amazon.com/o/ASIN/0520208...=3Q2KX809ZIEL2

    14th Century?

    Hired Swords: The Rise of Private Warrior Power in Early Japan by Karl F. Friday

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...roduct-details

    19th Century

    Re: Tokugawa Yoshinobu

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    Ryoma about one of the principles in the Meiji Restoration

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846

    The Last Samurai : The Life and Battles of Saigo Takamori by Mark Ravina

    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg...books&n=507846
    Don J. Modesto
    Ft. Lauderdale, Florida
    ------------------------
    http://theaikidodojo.com/

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