Hayes' New DVD Series

[Chris22]

Hello all, I was wondering if any of you Bujinkan or Genbukan people have got a chance to see Shidoshi Hayes' new dvd series. If you, what did you think? I personally thought they were very well done, just wondered what you guys thought as far as effective technique and real world usefullnes. Thanks
Chris Pharr
Kansas City Quest Center

[Tamdhu]

Superbly done.

Hayes is still the reining master of 'effective technique' AND 'real world effectiveness' as far as I am concerned, when it comes to ninjutsu and martial arts in general.

[doraemon]

A Toshido DVD series?
Shouldn't you be referring to him as Soke Hayes?
Super Soke?

[Oni]

Originally posted by doraemon
A Toshido DVD series?
Shouldn't you be referring to him as Soke Hayes?
Super Soke?

Why would you do that?

[MakotoDojo]

Originally posted by doraemon
A Toshido DVD series?
Shouldn't you be referring to him as Soke Hayes?
Super Soke?

Eric,

he call's himself Anshu or founder.

I am sure the dvd's are fine, but what bothers me is things like this:

Koto Ryu Koppojutsu Shoden Kata "Ko-yoku" and "Yoku-to"

Koto Ryu Koppojutsu Shoden Kata "Ko-yoku”
1 Classical kata and 3 contemporary adaptations
An-shu Rumiko teaches "KO” kanji of Koto Ryu
Koto Ryu Koppojutsu Shoden Kata "Yoku-to”
1 Classical kata and 4 contemporary adaptations
Special bonus! Togakure Ryu ninjutsu stealth walking Ko-ashi "Small step"

Use this video lesson to begin your study leading to earning your Shoden scroll diploma in Koto Ryu Koppojutsu!

Taken from:
Here

There are other such things here:
[/quote]Here

How about this:

[quote]Study and earn your menjo diploma from An-shu Stephen K. Hayes by means of these Long-Distance Learning courses designed to teach you the techniques and coach you to skill by way of long-distance video exchange testing

Or:

Buy the DVDs, study them well, and pass your tests for your first diplomas. Then come to a Hombu Dojo sponsored event to be officially certified as a teacher in our SKH Quest network. You will learn how we structure classes, how we adapt the material into variations that make classes more exciting, and how we test for belts and diplomas. You will receive a beautiful Japanese-style instructor diploma in the arts you choose and we will list your school on our web site to attract students in your area to your school. When your students are ready for their diplomas, contact us to have the custom-made Japanese and English scroll menjo diplomas prepared and sent to you.

Taken from:
Here

Like I said I am sure the quality is very good . But wow. Giving license in the traditional ryu ha? And please I hope no one dances around the issue with spin, read above and at the site and that is what someone buying the dvd's will think. I know Manaka himself a menkyo kaiden holder doesn't do such things.

So now we can have the local Tae Kwon Do school, or Karate School teaching Koto Ryu or Togakure ryu and claim they hold license in them when Even Bujinkan Shihan would never make such claims.

The Golden Dragon indeed...

PS..

Hayes is still the reining master of 'effective technique' AND 'real world effectiveness' as far as I am concerned, when it comes to ninjutsu and martial arts in general.


__________________
John Clayton

We all are entitled to our opinions, but I am just curious under that frame of reference, where does that leave Soke? maybe Soke should study with hayes? Not an attack on your opinion, it just sparked some questions...

[spartanmachine]

From what I understand I think the diplomas are for the Fundamental "Basics" of these traditional arts and what he's later refering to is well to teach the basics and Toshindo at your school.Not to become of full fledged instructor of these Ryu. This is what it sounds like to me.

[Oni]

I believe we already had this discussion as to what these programs are. I also believe you were part of it Rick so I am somewhat confused why we are covering it again.

As far as:

We all are entitled to our opinions, but I am just curious under that frame of reference, where does that leave Soke? maybe Soke should study with hayes? Not an attack on your opinion, it just sparked some questions...

It is really kind of funny to see you of all people taking this route. No further elaboration needed.

[MakotoDojo]

Originally posted by spartanmachine
From what I understand I think the diplomas are for the Fundamental "Basics" of these traditional arts and what he's later refering to is well to teach the basics and Toshindo at your school.Not to become of full fledged instructor of these Ryu. This is what it sounds like to me.

Uhmm No..

Please read what he has at his site.

here is a direct quote:

CHU-DEN Expertise Courses
Develop expertise in the classical martial arts of Japan - In production

OKU-DEN Inner Secrets Mastery Courses
Develop mastery in the classical martial arts of Japan - Availability restricted

HI-DEN Deepest Secrets Courses
Develop highest mastery in the classical martial arts - Availability restricted

He offers what he calls scroll menkyos in the arts and levels listed.

another quote:

Use this video lesson to begin your study leading to earning your Shoden scroll diploma in Koto Ryu Koppojutsu!

Earn a shoden scroll diploma ***IN*** Koto Ryu Koppojutsu! That is pretty black and white.. Now we all know that he cannot do such a thing and we all know that that is not what they are really getting... BUT that IS what he is selling... Like I said it is black and white...

Of course I expect Toshin Do folks to get upset and hayes followers to defend. But that's ok I think it is disgusting that hayes while being a good martial artist continues to cash in on Soke's art...

but that is just my worthless opinion..

[Oni]

Rick,

Your continued use of To-Shin Dough is going to continue to be removed.

"Rudeness is the cowards imitation of confidence...

Try reading your own sig line?

[DWeidman]

Originally posted by Oni
Rick,

Your continued use of To-Shin Dough is going to continue to be removed.

Why? What would motivate that?

If it is immature, then it will be seen as such. If it happens to border too close to reality, then that will also be seen.

-Daniel

[spartanmachine]

"Earn a shoden scroll diploma ***IN*** Koto Ryu Koppojutsu! That is pretty black and white.. Now we all know that he cannot do such a thing and we all know that that is not what they are really getting... BUT that IS what he is selling... Like I said it is black and white..."
Use this video lesson to begin your study leading to earning your Shoden scroll diploma in Koto Ryu Koppojutsu!



Exactly "to begin". Anyways why don't you contact SKH and ask him yourself? I find it highly unlikely that he is doing anything other than promoting the arts.

[ChrisMoon]

I would agree that the ad on the SKH Quest site is certainly misleading. I know it is good content (I am a subscriber) but I wonder if people will be getting the wrong idea when it comes to certificates and such.

[Oni]

Originally posted by ChrisMoon
I would agree that the ad on the SKH Quest site is certainly misleading. I know it is good content (I am a subscriber) but I wonder if people will be getting the wrong idea when it comes to certificates and such.

That is certainly a fair question. When going over the material for the Bojutsu Kihon in Dayton last year it was made very clear to us that this was considered To-Shin Do Kukishinden Bojutsu licensing.

I noted that Rick mentioned Menkyo above...I know the term Menjo is used...but I did not see the term Menkyo used at all...anyone know what the exact translation of Menjo is? Only thing I have found is that it basically means 'japanese certificate'.

[ChrisMoon]

I am not trying to slam anything but would calling it Toshindo Bojutsu be a better route. I think the problem that some people would have is using an actual ryu name in any kind of certificate or licensing.
I have said before I am not a student of any of the x-kans or Toshindo, but I buy some of Hatsumi's and Haye's stuff because I think it works. Maybe my views are old fashioned but I just think something is a little off with using a name of a koryu in a certificate. It can confuse people.

[Oni]

Originally posted by DWeidman
Why? What would motivate that?

If it is immature, then it will be seen as such. If it happens to border too close to reality, then that will also be seen.

-Daniel

Daniel,

You may be right, but we all tend to be a tad sensitive when our instructors/arts are bad mouthed...particularly when it comes from certain individuals.