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Thread: You can't use knockouts in a real engagement!

  1. #1
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    Default You can't use knockouts in a real engagement!

    I believe there is a place for pressure point usage. Especially in the grappling/clinch range. In fact Evan Pantazzi has a great tape on pressure point grappling. It is one of the best in my library.

    But to think you can use Kyusho to knock some one out it in a real adrenaline filled physical engagement is unrealistic. If ever attacked on the street are you really going to try to find a quarter size point on some 275 pound dude's gall bladder meridian and try to knock that person out. The motor skills required are too fine; not to mention there just would not be enough time.

    Gross motor skills and blunt trauma are where it is at.

    Dillman and Pantazzi knockout videos are fine exhibits of parlor tricks, but that is where they should stay. In the parlor.

    Stanley Neptune

  2. #2
    Gene Williams Guest

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    You are right, Stanley. BTW, Dillman has got to be the greatest example of a "mouse that roared" to ever come down the pike. I had one of his so-called black belts visit my dojo once. He was working with one of my dan and trying to find his ulnar nerve (a fairly simple pressure point). He could never make my student wince, but next day my student's arm had bruises all over it around the site where the guy was pressing I met Dillman at a tournament once. Black gi with red stripes, hair styled, manicure, limp hand shake. Jesus, I thought I was talking to one of the cast members of Friends.

  3. #3
    bradley john Guest

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    You guys really amaze me. With just one hand shake, and watching a few so called parlor tricks on video, you have decided that pressure points have no combat worthyness.

    You had one so called black belt from DKI try to show you something on one of your students. He screwed it up, and now you have pronounced the whole pressure point stuff is a joke in a real combat situation? i will be the first to agree with you that there are alot of dan ranks in DKI that dont impress me what so ever. I have visited a few dojos of different styles and have watched their best in action. At least 99% of the time i am not impressed at all, with anything they do. I still havent made it to your level that pressure points have no use in a real combat situation.

    I have been to a few grappleing classes and i have witnessed the head instructor screw up a few things. But i did'nt stand there and tell him, his whole system is a joke and not combat effective.

    What rank do you have to be and in what style to be this smart?

    How long have you trained in pressure points? Who was your instructor?

    I do agree that pressure points have no benifit in a real fight, especially if you dont train that way.

    Here's an idea, when shaking George dillman's hand the next time, give him some of that blunt trauma you brag about. Maybe he will show you how pressure points really work in a fight.

    bradley john

  4. #4
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Gee, Bradley, I've never bragged about blunt trauma. I am very familiar with Dillman and his BS nonsense. Pressure points have their place, although a small one. Have you ever been in a real fight?

  5. #5
    bradley john Guest

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    Hi Gene

    Yes, I have been real fights before. Yes, I was able to use pressure points in the fights. [but i have also been training to do so for 10 years] Is there any guarantees in a fight that you will win? Heck no!

    Pressure points are NOT the total package to your fighting skills. They are only one small part of your fighting skills. [or style] A style is just a delivery system. [of a punch and kick among other things] Gene I would not argue with you, which style or system is the best. But I would argue with you that pressure points added to the style that you practice WILL make your style better, and more effective. [only ,and only if you train to do so propperly] Gene would you agree to any of this paragraph?

    Alot of the time i see people that train in pressure point fighting brag about the KO's that they do. I have been around them for a great while now, and I will be the first to stand up and tell them that they could not fight their way out of a girlscout meeting. But on the other side of it, I have seen some people that are VERY good at adding PP to an allready good fighting style. They dont have any problem with fighting their way out of an bar brawl. Dose this make them like super man? NO it doesn't , but it does give them an advantage to a certain degree. Gene would you agree with any of this paragraph?

    A fight is a fight. He that hits the firstest and the mostest, USUALLY has an advantage in the fight.

    So if you are in a real fight, and you are trying to hit a pressure point, and you miss it. What is the worst thing that just happened? You still just hit him. If a person lands a strike on a PP and the guy is still in the fight, do I tell him that he is suppose to be KO'ed? NO! I continue the fight untill one of us has had enough.
    Gene, dose this sound any different than your fight plan?

    If you get into a fight with just an above average boxer, TKD, ground fighter, college wrestler, street fighter, kickboxer, you had better bring some good fighting skills to the fight. If you dont they will kick your backside and make you look stupid. I am going to be the guy in the fight trying to hit PP when i can. And if i miss ,,, aahhh heck I still got to hit him. But after a few years of training, I find that I DO hit PP in real fights alot of the time. And if they dont go down, i keep the pressure on them untill they do ,,, or I do....lol

    Gene, what do you mean by the BS that dillman teaches? Would you care to expand on that statement? I do for a fact know that at the age of 61, george dillman is for a fact, still a fighting force to contend with.

    Gene , now that i have practiced my typing for a while, are we really that far from agreeing with each other about pressure points in a real fight?

    Good talking to you.

    best wishes

    bradley john

  6. #6
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Actually, Bradley, we are probably a long way from agreeing. Anyone trying to defend Dillman has already lost credibility in my view. Sorry. BTW, there are a couple of threads on Dillman in here somewhere. You may want to do a search.

  7. #7
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    Bradley,

    Thanks! I can't speak for Gene but I think you are amazing too.

    Stanley Neptune

  8. #8
    bradley john Guest

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    Hi Stanley
    Thanks for the kind words!

    Gene

    Are you going to clarify the statement you made about dillman teaching BS? What is the BS that you are reffering to?

    your buddy

    bradley john

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    Hi Bradley..

    As Gene said, if you do a search with the keyword 'Dillman' you'll find enough information to get a good view of what people here think of Dillman and why they think that way..
    Rogier van der Peijl

    REAL SCOTSMEN WEAR KILTS because sheep can hear a zipper at 500 yards!

    Originally posted by Cady Goldfield
    Ah, what a cutie, Rogier. I'll bet a lot of ladies in Netherlands are mourning because you are out of circulation now!

  10. #10
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    Bradley,

    I was kidding. These are what we call jokes.

    Stanley Neptune

  11. #11
    bradley john Guest

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    That's it! I quit martial arts. I was caught by Gene defending Dillman. How can i show my face in public again? How can i ever put my uniform on again ,knowing that Gene has no respect for anyone saying that they can hit a pressure point in a real fight? When will Gene be on ESPN or Showtime to tell all those boxers that they too cant hit any pressure points that they are trying to hit?

    Whoa is me! Gene how can i regain good status in your eyes? I have now seen the error of my training. That should be the first step in my recovery? Admitting that i was wrong is the first step? I feel like i have been to the top of the mountain and gained a new outlook on martial arts. Gene you are the one i have to thank for that.

    Please tell me Gene that i am not banished from your good graces forever? I will work very hard to regain your confidence in me.

    your buddy bradley john

  12. #12
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    Default

    Information on Dillman.

    http://experts.about.com/q/332/2974857.htm







    Ken Allgeier
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  13. #13
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Bradley, You were asking what to do to get back in my good graces... Take a metal paper clip in each hand, stand in a pan of water, and stick the paper clips into the nearest wall socket. There's your one touch knockout. Go for it...

  14. #14
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    Talking I'M KO'D

    Originally posted by Gene Williams
    Bradley, You were asking what to do to get back in my good graces... Take a metal paper clip in each hand, stand in a pan of water, and stick the paper clips into the nearest wall socket. There's your one touch knockout. Go for it...
    Gene, you ca go on tour with that one and start an ogaization where a lot of fat, out of shape guys with improperly tied obis will pay you big money.

    Bradley, in a real fight, with a SKILLED opponent, trying to hit him solid enough for a good strike that can at least hurt him is hard enough.When you talk about a point the size of a quarter coupled with the fact that almost all of them require a set up point about the same size,(that makes two of them) is a pipe dream.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  15. #15
    Gene Williams Guest

    Default Re: I'M KO'D

    Originally posted by Goju Man
    Gene, you ca go on tour with that one and start an ogaization where a lot of fat, out of shape guys with improperly tied obis will pay you big money.

    Bradley, in a real fight, with a SKILLED opponent, trying to hit him solid enough for a good strike that can at least hurt him is hard enough.When you talk about a point the size of a quarter coupled with the fact that almost all of them require a set up point about the same size,(that makes two of them) is a pipe dream.
    That is so true. Look at boxers...they train to hit the head more than anybody and look how hard it is for them to land a clean shot. Look at the Gracies...it has taken them as long as 45 minutes to finish a guy. Clean shots (unless you sneak punch someone) and clean locks are harder to get than you think. Dillman is a lot of mumbo jumbo, and anyone relying on pressure points in a street fight will end up in the ER.

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