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Thread: You can't use knockouts in a real engagement!

  1. #46
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Originally posted by Jeff Cook

    I guess we are drifting a bit off topic?

    Jeff Cook
    Wabujitsu
    Maybe it's because we all pretty much agree on pps and the Air farce.....

  2. #47
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    Yeah, I think you guys are right. I can say that I never had the pleasure of MRE's, I'm an older goat that goes back to C rations. I still hve my opener on my key chain. Try eating C rats without your trusty p38. ( and is also good for about a hundred other things )

    Well, another thread gone by the wayside.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  3. #48
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    Default "Block & strike the same..."

    Just a comment--
    When I trained in American "Karate"--we were always taught the old saying that a strike is a block & a block is a strike and the two should be performed the same. I became a black belt in it,totally believed in it & began to teach this method as well. I was later enlightened by my Tuite/Kyusho teacher, Stan Hart, for six years and realized that this method wasn't necessarily true when it came to the old Okinawan self defense applications, as taught to him by Mr. Oyata. Basically, and the best way that I could describe it for those who haven't been trained in it is that the "block" or better stated redirection/grappling technique is a "dragging" motion on the attacker's muscles, the "strike"/Kyusho is more of a shocking motion done upon the attacker's muscles.
    Thus, I fully understand and totally respect the Karate method of hitting hard and simultaneously striking and blocking with the same arm/hand--but it is not what I've trained in for the last 18 years and if one tries to learn the older method--it becomes apparent that there is a difference in how you apply your body in "blocking & striking". The exact same kata motion--i.e. a gedan barai/downward block-- can be applied to redirect/grapple--dragging, or striking---shocking. This Karate method of block& strike being the same is one of the many mistakes that Mr.Dillman or others make when trying to perform "Kyusho Jutsu" --thus as I first started to comment on this thread--please don't judge our Kyusho Jutsu by using "The Dillman Method".
    Food for thought...
    Best regards,
    Joe logue

  4. #49
    Richard Horrowi Guest

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    Hey Joe ( where you goin with that gun in your hand?) LOL

    Joe what you've learned in the last 18 yrs is great. Of course that's your perrogative and perspective on it. Higaonna Sensei doesn't teach his people the same way Oyata teaches so is his method incorrect? I very highly doubt it! However as mentioned previously Oyata uses sawed off baseball bats on his own version of a Wing Chun dummy, Higaonna does the same.

    I can understand Oyatas students not wanting to be thought of in the same sentence as Mr. Dillman. However maybe I'm reading this wrong but it seems you want everyone to view Oyata Senseis method as the only true correct method?

    Incidently I read Dillman claimed he received an 8th Dan under Oyata Sensei. I don't believe this for a minute, however can you clarify what their relationship was, and if in fact Dillman ever received any rank at all from Oyata?

    Thanks

    RH

  5. #50
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    Default Answers to Richard...

    Hi Richard,(a.k.a. Jimmy Hendricks fan)...
    Let me do my best to answer your two valid questions:
    1.Categorically, absolutely & positively--I don't think how I've trained is the "Best" or "better" than other methods. If I was an attacker, I wouldn't want to be struck with our method of Kyusho Jutsu or your method of Goju Ryu--or any method for that matter. Most of us here on E-Budo are people who trained in authentic methods of self preservation--trained differently--but equally. I personally think that the method I changed to 18 years ago was more efficient for ME than what I had previously practiced--as I'm getting older, I'm getting faster & better--the same I've seen with Stan Hart--the same he saw with Seiyu Oyata.Thus--I'm satisfied with my training for ME--not being egocentric and thinking my training is better than yours--just it's best/more bio-mechanically efficient & less based on physical strength for ME. Stan always said to me do what you,(I), think is best for me. He was correct. I also say these same words to my students.
    Richard--I sincerely hope you and anyone else that has this erroneous idea of me would please read my last post here today--I said that "I understand and RESPECT" the Karate method also. Please re-read my last post on this thread. I assumed it was obvious.
    2.Tuite/Kyusho "Master" Dillman-LOL!!...As I also stated in a previous post here on this thread---Mr. Oyata said to me personnally--from his lips to my ears--about two feet in front of me---not second hand "gossip"--"Georgie no know Tuite, just come seminar". If he said this, does it sound logical to anyone with an ounce of brain matter in their head that Dillman EVER received an "8th" degree from Oyata???? Not a hard question to answer. For the record, as Robert Rousselot has stated also on other posts as well, Mr. Dillman came to seminars for about a year an a half. Has anyone reading this message EVER , properly made a "green belt" level in a year and a half? Maybe some have--if you have--ask yourself a question and be honest--at a green belt level--could you properly and COMPLETELY teach a method of self preservation??? The only answer is of course NO.
    The other story he passes out is that Hohen Soken--one of the greatest teachers of Okinawan Karate,
    gave "Saint Georgie" a "secret scroll" with old Tuite/Kyusho Points on it to study. Firstly--can anyone learn a method of self preservation by reading a scroll???? Maybe he can, maybe pigs fly too. The other 99.999% of the world's martial arts practioners have to study many years to do it--but then again--George could have had "Divine intervention"-- and I also believe in Santa Claus,
    (sorry Virginia if you're reading this...). Secondly--Hohen Soken took a picture with him once and then he has an urge to show Dillman a "secret scroll"??? Doesn't this look like a scene out of a bad "Kung-Fu" movie from the 1960's??!!!
    The other great factor of the "DILLMAN METHOD" is his training with
    Master "Professor" Wally Jay's "Small Circle Jujitsu". I'm sure Mr. Jay is a great Martial Artist--I'm sure his method is great as well,
    but what the heck does this joint locking system have to do with Mr. Oyata's method???--NOTHING!!! Thus--the three main parts of his claims to "Authentic" Tuite/Kyusho Jutsu knowledge and an "8th" degree from Mr. Oyata in Tuite/Kyusho Jutsu are at best laughable!!! I don't care if he calls it "The Dillman Method", but to infer authenticity to his books by calling them "Tuite or Kyusho Jutsu" is just plain wrong and totally disrespectful to Mr. Oyata, or all of us who have trained hard for many years to learn the correct method.
    So how he received an "8th" degree from Mr. Oyata would be only by "Divine intervention"--Maybe we should have him cannonized--"Saint Master Dillman"???!!!LOL
    With these facts & how he can only say in his "books" that he was
    "inspired" by Seiyu Oyata--you Richard and everyone else be the judge--is he an authentic "8th" degree in Tuite/Kyusho?? Are any of his students authentically Black Belts/Masters if "Saint Dillman" isn't???
    The answers are obvious. So, once again, I hope the world wakes up and realizes that Saint George Dillman is about as good of a proper example of Tuite/Kyusho Jutsu as my Grandmother was of Goju Ryu, Shotokan, or Shorin Ryu...(although she was a tough lady...HA!!)
    Let's just all be honest & remember that a fact is a fact is a fact.
    Best regards to all,
    Joe Logue

  6. #51
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    Talking

    " Hey Joe where are you going with that gun in your hand, going to shoot George Dillman,
    caught him messing around with my Kyusho Jutsu."







    AKA Jimi Hendrix :" Standing next to a mountain,chop it down with the edge of my hand"

    Voodoo Chile;Electric Ladyland
    Last edited by Ken Allgeier; 21st April 2004 at 05:14.
    " The FUTURE is UNWRITTEN,KNOW YOUR RIGHTS"
    The Clash.

  7. #52
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Originally posted by Joe Logue
    Just a comment--
    When I trained in American "Karate"--we were always taught the old saying that a strike is a block & a block is a strike and the two should be performed the same. I became a black belt in it,totally believed in it & began to teach this method as well. I was later enlightened by my Tuite/Kyusho teacher, Stan Hart, for six years and realized that this method wasn't necessarily true when it came to the old Okinawan self defense applications, as taught to him by Mr. Oyata.................. This Karate method of block& strike being the same is one of the many mistakes that Mr.Dillman or others make when trying to perform "Kyusho Jutsu"
    Well actually he does teach this concept strike is a block & a block is a strike .............but that is only one of several interpretations he teaches for blocks and he takes the strike is a block & a block is a strike concept a bit deeper than Dillman does.


    Originally posted by Joe Logue
    --please don't judge our Kyusho Jutsu by using "The Dillman Method".
    Yes, please don't think that anything Dillman teaches is similar to what Mr. Oyata teaches. Dillman just happens to use the word "Kyusho Jutsu" and that's where the similarity begins and ends.


    Originally posted by Richard Horrowi

    I can understand Oyatas students not wanting to be thought of in the same sentence as Mr. Dillman. However maybe I'm reading this wrong but it seems you want everyone to view Oyata Senseis method as the only true correct method?
    Mr. Oyata did introduce these concepts into the West, America specifically, and as such tends to be somewhat of a "yardstick" people are measured by, and Mr. Oyata can actually do/has done what he claims on not so willing "ukes".........and Mr. Dillman......well.......let's just say opinions vary.

  8. #53
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    Joe, now that we are on the subject, I have also changed my philosophy on blocking. Sinc my exposure to kickboxing and Ashihara, I prefer to parry than to block. That is just my personal preferrence, but respect the way my compadres did it in the old school. Not everything can work the same for everyone.
    Manny Salazar
    Submisson Sabaki

  9. #54
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Originally posted by Goju Man
    Not everything can work the same for everyone.
    Just to add to that thought........not everything works everytime. Which is why it is better to have an array of techniques and have some variations on them. Keep them simple and effective.

  10. #55
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    Thumbs down Ken Allgeier's variation of the song...

    Only Ken could change a classic song like that!!!
    OK Ken--now just for that--we're practicing lots of Kyusho to the neck tonight--and you're first on the mat!!!(That'll teach him!!....)
    Joe Logue

  11. #56
    Richard Horrowi Guest

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    Thanks to everyone for their responses!

    I guess Dillmans kinda in a Purple Haze! Tryin Kyusho but he don't why? Excuse me while I kiss this guy! Or maybe that was Kim Dillman LOL!

    I for one don't believe any of the Dillman history. I will say this anyone who will stand and let me hit them I'm sure as hell gonna knock out.

    Later Gents!

    RH

  12. #57
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    Default How well do you think they work?

    I can see a pressure point being used in a grappling situation to either set something up, or to be applied to someone when they are physically restrained and then you want to cause them pain. Other than that, I see no real use for them. I find them easy to shake off when applied and all they do is cause pain, Pain can be overcome. In an all out fight, I think it would be really hard to set up a pressure point counter from an attack, or even setting up an attack involving pressure points.
    Andrew Prochnow

  13. #58
    bradley john Guest

    Smile

    Still waiting for all you so called experts to go to Dillman's class and try him out.

    It should not be too big of an challenge if everything you say is true?

    bradley john
    Last edited by bradley john; 26th April 2004 at 01:27.

  14. #59
    Troll Basher Guest

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    Originally posted by bradley john
    Still waiting for all you so called experts to go to Dillman's class and try him out.

    It should not be too big of an challenge if everything you say is true?

    bradley john
    I havent read here where anyone claimed to be an expert.....please direct me to that paragraph or phrase.
    Dillman actually came to my teachers class.......and if memory serves all he did was run around and video tape eveything.........didnt train, just taped others training.
    There are a whole slew of people that have seen Georgie try to do techniques and bombed.

  15. #60
    Richard Horrowi Guest

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    Hi Bradley,

    Would going to one of his Senior Yudanshas class suffice? Like someone who was in all of his books? I've done this and wasn't impressed at all. As a matter of fact they hardly broke a sweat training and didn't dare do any Kumite, or even pre arranged Kumite.

    It was all applications on a limp indivdual or a grab. Hardly what I considered realistic.

    Regards,

    RH

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