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Thread: Kama Kata

  1. #1
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    Default Kama Kata

    I am trying to find information on traditional Okinawan Kama Kata.
    Does any one run Toyama No Niecho No Kama?
    If so am I spelling it correctly?
    Can anyone tell me about its origins and history?
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

  2. #2
    Gene Williams Guest

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    There are not very many kama kata that are "orthodox" and go back a ways. On Okinawa they are called "Ni cho gama." Hama Higa is old, so is Kingawa. Toyama is another. Hama Higa is named after an island, the others are named after people. There are many, many "dojo" kama kata, made up by someone. I think Mabuni made a couple, Jushi, I think is one. The old ones are not fancy or flashy. They don't have a bunch of flips or kicks, and they look strong. Sakagami has a book, a series on Ryukyu Kobudo, which is excellent if you can find it. History of development is very hard to find. Most of it is oral history.

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    Default re

    Thank You, yes finding information has not been easy. I have some oral information. But I am trying to learn more. So do you know if I am spelling it correctly? From what Sensei has told us there where only five original Kama Kata on the island before WWII. I dont know all their names. I never really appreciated the Kama as a weapon until he pulled out a couple of real ones from his bag. Very impressive compared to the fake practice kama every one uses to do fancy flashy moves with. It becomes very obvious after seeing the real Kama why the Kata is simple and powerful.
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

  4. #4
    Gene Williams Guest

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    I know that four of the five are: Kingawa Dai and Sho, Toyama, and Hama Higa. I don't know the name of the other one. Shureido makes a nice kama, but they are pricey. Please...don't buy those dull edged things. Learn with a real weapon. It changes everything. By the way, when I said the old kata do not have many flips, I meant hand reversals, not acrobatics.

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    Default re

    Thanks for the help!
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

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    Toyama No Nicho Gama also goes by Tozan No Nicho Gama . You can find it in Inoue Sensei's book , Toshishiro Obata's book , & there's a website that has it , as well . If you need help finding it , let me know & I'll provide the link for you .

    David

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    Default

    David thanks for the correct spelling and info. yes could you Pm the link or post it here please. I will look for the books.
    Chris McLean
    Martial Arts student

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    Here's the link : http://home.planet.nl/~poel0383/kama_tozan.html , I dont know how accurate it is though , as I do not know the kata & probablly wont be learning it for a few years .
    On a side note , I'd like to add , a while ago I compared this kata to that of Hama Higa , it appears that they are almost identical . I'm wondering if one was based on the other , or perhaps they are the same kata , but by different names . Like the Bo Kata Oshiro No kun , it is also known as Ufugusuku No Kun , & the Kata we're talking about Toyama , is also known as Tozan ; and possibly Hama Higa ? Thoughts ?

    David

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    Default kama kata

    in the ryu kyu kobudo system of Tamayose Hidemi we have been taught the kata Kanagawa No Nicho Gama. Thomas Hodges

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    Default Kama

    Hi,

    二丁鎌 = Ni Ch Kama. The "" is a long vowel. Ch simply indicates the counting of things, thus "Ni Ch Kama" simple means "2 sickles."

    Kanegawa no Nichgama: Kanegawa no Gibu was the grandfather of Taira Shinken. He is said to have developed the Kanegawa no Nichōgama
    and Kanegawa no Timbe. Inoue in Ryky Kobud Jkan wrote that Kanegawa has been a "student of the great Yafuso" while Tyama is simply described as "A great master of Bōjutsu" and as founder of Tōyama no Nichōgama and Tōyama no Kun.

    Nichōgama, Nunchaku, Surujin, Tekkō, Tinbe and Rochin are all every day tools. This gave rise to the theorie that Ryūkyū Kobudō is a peasants martial art. The development of theses weapons, however, only took place in the ending 19th century, when the Ryky kingdom had been abolished and the officials and high class people (Oyakata, Pchin, etc.) lost their offices and with this the (weapons)tradition connected to them.

    While the kata of B, Sai and Tunfa may be easily dated back in the times of Ryūkyū kingdom, this is not the case with these "peasant weapons," and belonging to them the Kama. Becoming Okinawa-ken in 1879, the original approach to weapons use (in whatever way this happened) was lost and - while keeping the old traditions alive - substituted and enlarged by new ways. So, depending on ones standpoint about what tradition is, Kama are relatively new (at least as a classified weapon).
    Maybe this adds to the discussion.
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

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    Default 123

    Gene,

    can you tell from what system Hama Higa no Kama is from??? I mainly found american websites where this kata is mentioned, so I would guess it stems from Isshin-ry???
    Best regards

    Andreas Quast

    We are Pope!

  12. #12
    Gene Williams Guest

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    Either Shorin or Isshin ryu, maybe. I'm not sure that the kobudo kata were necessarily associated with any particular karate ryu originally. Different kobudo is taught by many Okinawan ryu, and not all teach the same ones. I learned all my kobudo in Shito-ryu. I know that Isshin ryu does a lot of kobudo. Shito-ryu does tons of it. Not so much in Goju, but they do practice kobudo.

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    I know that Richard Kim taught Hama Higa , as it is in his book . However , Isshin Ryu does not have Hama Higa in their syllabus . I too can't find much info on its history .

    David

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    Default Hamahiga Kata

    Taira Shinken Sensei Has the Hamahiga kata both
    Tunfa and Sai in his Ryukyu Kobudo teachings.
    Taira Sensei taught Hamahiga Tunfa to Shimabuku
    Sensei founder of Isshin-Ryu But in a film they
    spelled it wrong so many think it not in Isshin-ryu. Many think the Kata came from
    Hamahiga Island a short drive from the main
    Island now but was about 1/2 half hour by boat
    in the good old days.
    thank you
    bill steigner
    william steigner

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    Default

    Bill ,

    Do you know anything about the Hama Higa No Nichougama , though ?

    David

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