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Thread: Japanese vs Okinawan Goju

  1. #31
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    Yeah I'm suppossed meet up with Alex. I met him over the phone a couple of days ago. Was the other guy Art Webster or Robert Daniels?

  2. #32
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    Hey Ron besides you Shito guys down there in Griffin, here are the people I've dealt with, if you know any more reputable folk let me know. I apologize to all of you outside the Atlanta area who have come up on this.

    Goju: Art Webster, Robert Daniels, Alex Maldon, Doc Amos, Bill Benthall (USA Goju)

    Shorinji: Wayne van Horne (Jap), Hank Irwin (Oki)

    Shito: Joe Eidson, Mark Moore, Richard Dixon

    Shorin: Alan Weatherby, Mark Moeller, Tim Kelley

    Isshin: Don Roberts, Bill Strong, Jim LaRocco, John Dritt

    Shuri: Pete Pukish, Jim Knox, Michael Hernandez

    Shotokan: Toru Shimoji

  3. #33
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    I cant remember the guys name off hand , you might wanna do a websearch for Tony Rees & Goju to try to find his email address , & ask him . I think their organization is the Toku Juku , or something like that , cant remember .
    If you're not dead set on Goju , you might wanna try to hook up w/ Larry Griffin , who does Shito Ryu . I dont have his contact info anymore , but know he has a nationwide insurance office up there . So if you do a nationwide websearch , I'm sure you'll find his name .
    Jim Larroco Sensei is somone else I'd reccomend .

    David

  4. #34
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    Here you can find the info :

    http://www.okinawankarateclub.com/old/atlantaold.htm

    David

  5. #35
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    Dennis,

    I thought you were in Florida. My bad! I know several of the people you've mentioned. What is it you are looking for? You've seemed to check out quite a bit of people already.

    Regards,

    Mike

  6. #36
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    Mike thanks for your interest. Well before I tell you what I'm looking for, very quickly let me tell you a quick background. I've been in and out of martial arts for 30 years. Mostly CMA including N. Shaolin, Wing Chun alittle Hop Gar then I discovered Kali/Escrima/Silat and most recently began to enjoy the joint locking of streetwise jiujitsu and Hapkido/Hanmudo. I have grown weary of the false promises and money grubbing. Not to mention the non martial training of martial arts if you catch my drift.

    Right now I do Taiji and enjoy it. I'd like to supplement it with something that is not a money making venture but rather a passion or lifestyle. In my opinion, unless you want to be a ring fighter, the best bang for the buck is traditional karate. However like most arts there are the politicians, charlatans, wanna bees, etc. I don't want another bad taste in my mouth so I want to make 100% sure my next art,/teacher/school is well researched. In a perfect world I am looking for my last art. I remember my high school days when I was doing Okinawa-Te. I really loved it and had a great time in the dojo. Perhaps it was because of my youth but those memories linger.

    I just turned 50 and although I have picked up quite a few tidbits of knowledge, I still feel like the martial arts "business" got the better of me. My Bruce Lee fantasies are behind me and now I'm looking for a mature, respectful group of guys who work out pretty hard and pay homage to their art by honoring their sensei and their respective history.

    I like Okinawan arts over Japanese arts because more times than not, in my opinion, they have good joint locking, self defense, bunkai and don't go overboard with kata. That's why Gojuryu standsout in my mind. I worked out with several of the Goju names I mentioned and I like the way it fits my body style and martial arts background. Although I have to say that Alan Weatherby is a great Shorin-ryu teacher and I have not ruled him out. I'm going to meet up with an Isshinryu practioner later this week. He's a 6th dan who mixes in a little jiujitsu and I'm hoping he's my man. He sounds great over the phone. I like Isshinryu because of the quick upright stances, inside fighting and vertical fist. It reminds me of Wing Chun in that regard. Plus Shimabuku has captured my imagination. The more I read about him the more I like what he has said and done in the arts.

    Well I hope that answers your question and perhaps a light went on in your head about someone that might fit my needs. If not, I think I have narrowed down my choices to a nice short list. Again I apologize for all those non-Atlantans out there who have had to suffer through all this. Hopefully someone from down here also is looking around and maybe they have received some good starting points.

  7. #37
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    Hello Denis,
    I reconize several of the names you have mentioned and have met and workded out wiht a few of them as well. if you are looking for true authtic goju I would say taht Sensei Alex is the man to go with. I met him at the rengokai during Hanshi Higaonna's clinic. He has very good technique and who could argue with Higoanno's orginazation.

    Some of the people you mentioned are really caught up wiht the aau tournament type stuff. Tournaments are fun but you shouldent build your school around them. I think it teaches bad habbits.

    I think the best thing to do is keep trying out classes till you find the one that feels like home to you . hope this helps.

    Is robert danials still teaching I noticed he dosnet have a website anymore.
    Ron Davis
    Motobu ha Shito ryu Karate-do

    Karate is not a sport, it is a way of life!

  8. #38
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    I've been talking to Alex and he goes to Robert Daniels and Doc Amos to work out. Although Robert's site is down he still works out at the Cobb Civic gymnastic building where he teaches gymnastics...Wed, Thurs & Sat morning.

    I'm having surgery on Monday but told Alex I'm going to meet him down there and catch up with Robert as well as finally meet Alex face to face.

    I'm glad you have high regard for him. If my Isshinryu guy doesn't pan out I think I'll hang with Alex, Robert and Doc Amos when our schedules coincide.

    Oh BTW...I also found some ex-Chinese Goju guys in town who are students of Michael Elsner 6th dan in Athens. They broke away from Ron Van Clief and now do more or less straight Goju. Nice guys, I worked out with them once and may do some more down the road depending on whether I G0-JU or ISSHIN.

    I'd love to come down and see what you guys do sometime in the near future as well.

  9. #39
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    I would proabley stay away from the Chinese goju it is something that ron van clief created so i am usnure of there kata. Your more then welcome to come down and try a class here in griffin. I have Shito ryu classes on Tuesday from 7:30 till about 9 and on friday from 7 till about 8 and night.

    I didnt know Sensei Alex was teaching with Robert he was teaching at a dojo in Dunwoody guess it fell through. HOpefully it is the same Alex
    Ron Davis
    Motobu ha Shito ryu Karate-do

    Karate is not a sport, it is a way of life!

  10. #40
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    Dsomers

    The Okinawan Goju person is Terry Rees, not Tony.

    Honestly don't mean that to sound like I am being a horses arse.

    Please don't take it that way.

    His Tokai Juku organization is also Okinawan Goju.


    Chris Thomas

  11. #41
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    Ex-ShoreiKan guy from Kansas, right?

    I think he had a brother, not postive, I don't know his name?

    They ran Seisan Bunkai a LONG time ago (if I have right guys). It was cool, They beat the hell out of each other. They fought like .....brothers.

    God that was a long time ago.......

    Nevermind, have a good week.
    Ed Boyd

  12. #42
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    Tokai Juku
    Sensei: Terry L. Rees
    8700 Monrovia, Suite 202
    Lenexa, Kansas 66215
    (913) 888-9696

  13. #43
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    Sorry about that , honest mistake .

    David

  14. #44
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    "I didnt know Sensei Alex was teaching with Robert he was teaching at a dojo in Dunwoody guess it fell through. HOpefully it is the same Alex."

    Ron,

    I think you mean Alex Maisuradze from Russia. He taught at World Class Martial Arts Academy in Dunwoody around Perimeter Mall. He and another Russian taught at what was Dave Young's place before he got out of the business. He is now under contract with some fancy athletic club and doesn't take outside students unless they join the exclusive and expensive club. He's hard core and can tell you about the brutal training in his native Russia. They would drill, kumite and run kata till they dropped. Bare concrete floors and if you could afford a gi it wasn't long before it looked like a torn rag. I guess you can't blame him for going for the bucks.

  15. #45
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    I would like to mention that the word 'judo' was interchangeaby used with the word jujitsu' well before Jigoro Kano sensei. Jigoro Kano sensei is credited with developing and popularizing Kodokan Judo. A major aspect as everyone knows is that he wanted judo to be practiced among all ages of youth. In order to achieve this he focused on safety development. Consequently techniques were a bit altered to provide that safety and further rules were in place for the enjoyment of engagement that evenutally led to competitions and to an Olympic Sport.

    Next, an the explanation of differences between Japanese Goju Ryu and Okinawa Goju Ryu one needs to remember that after WWII, the Japanese as a whole did not think highly of the Okinawa people; therefore, they did not think very highly of their martial arts either. Often referred to Okinawa karate practitioners as 'villagers' and their karate as 'village karate'. Because of the Japanese demeaning view and perceptions of Okinawan karate, there were several decades that Japanese Goju Ryu teachers did not visit Okinawa in order to maintain contact with senior teachers, to be further instructed and to continue to develop their tecchnique. As it is with prolonged absence from a source, Japanese Goju Ryu slowly developed to mirror movements and attitudes similar to other Japanese martial arts. Since Okinawa returned to Japan, over the years business interactions, education and training has helped Okinawans to economically develop and Japanese to become more accepting of Okinawans. In the last 10 to 15 years there has been a tremendous interest on Okinawa Goju Ryu and have witnessed continuous visits to Okinawa from Japanese instructors in order to research and to study.

    The Okinawa Goju Ryu movement is in accordance closer to Chinese movement. Okinawa Goju Ryu Karate training emphasized Kata and less Jiu Kumite. In the Hombu Dojo Kata is always the focal point. In Shibu Dojo matters are more relaxed and a variety of training programs are followed. Okinawans believe that Kata is the core of the karate training. Out of sheer respect when one visits the teacher of a Hombu Dojo, it is unthinkable to engage in Kumite training. Afterall, visiting the Hombu Dojo is precisely for the study of keen technical details. Okinawan teachers of all styles entered the concept of cometition much later than the Japanese. Today, because Okinawa is a Japanese Prefecture the schools curriculum is the same as the Japanese schools curriculum. In Physical Education the teachers instruct sports (Karate is one of those sports). Students engage in Intramural Tournaments and the Karate they learn and compete is primarily Japanese Karate. Okinawa students will need to go to privately owned dojo in order to learn an Okinawa style of karate. Thus, even in Goju Ryu, because the athletic schools programs are Japanese, the curriculum they follow is the same as that of any school on mainland Japan. So, even on Okinawan when the students practice Goju Ryu their Kata 'looks' different from their Okinawa Goju Ryu counterparts.

    On Budo, Budo does not include tournaments. Budo encompasses Bujitsu. Budo is a way of life, a listyle, and on Okinawa students were not encouraged to enter tournaments but were highly encouraged to train. Everyone's duty on Okinawa is to go to the dojo. To miss class one needs to have a 'good excuse' for the next time when one goes to the dojo. Part of the idea of Budo is commitment. Everyone who attends a dojo on Okinawa is committed to train. If someone is absent it is noticed and he is missed. They are committed to maintain the teachings and the techniques exactly as were presented to them. Off course nowadays Okinawans compete, but again, a 'good excuse' is usually given for their actions. It is easy for Okinawans to just practice kata. They feel a responsibility to maintain the technical information exactly as it was passed down to them because they are responsible for preserving Karate since it is their cultural heritage and inheritance.

    After all this, I know I have not explained well the difference between Japanese and Okinawa Goju Ryu. One would need a trip to Okinawa and to mainland for several months in order to 'see' the differences. The simple differences are the ones we see on the technical aspects of Kata. The real difference is hidden as it is described in their own unique way of feeling and thinking which enevitably is expressed on their performance and behavior.

    I think I should put a period.
    Please do not dip stars in poison and throw them my way..
    Katherine Loukopoulos
    Bubishi Karate Do Organization

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