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Thread: cheap naginata

  1. #1
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    Default cheap naginata

    Has anyone had anything to do with the cheap naginata that seem to be flooding the marketplace? (ebay and all the cheap sword suppliers)

    A friend of mine has one and it looks to be about as good as most cheap stainless sword blades, but he wont let me take it to bits to see what kind of tang it's got!

    It's obviously got nothing on the Paul Chen version or a genuine Japanese original, and apart from the short shaft seems chunky enough to knock about a bit. And it has a fairly pleasant blade sheath/scabbard to.

    What do you guys reckon?
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    paul chen has made a naginata before it went for about $300 last time i saw it about 2 years ago. also kris cutlery makes them as well
    just the blade part though.

    -chi jonesone

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    The cheap one I'm referring to can be bought for as little as 30 ($45?)
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    The cheap one I'm referring to can be bought for as little as 30 ($45?)

    http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...sPageName=WDVW
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Default I have taken one of these things down

    You will be disappointed but not very surprised to find that there is no 'tang' on the blade at but rather a large threaded rod welded (and porrly welded I might add) to the end of the blade. This bladed is then screwed into the top of the staff into a bolt that has been fitted into the end of the staff. I DO NOT recommend swinging one of these around as the blade very well could easily fly off and hurt you or someone nearby. They are cheap pieces of crap with plastic fittings but hey what do you expect for 30.00 bucks.

    Ed Green
    Budo Weapons
    http://www.angelfire.com/ks3/green27712
    Ed Green
    http://www.Budoweapons.com

    Most times I find that if I just read and listen that foot never seems to enter my mouth.

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    Well let that be a warning to anyone who has one then. A dainty wall-hanger and no more. I recently had to send back a cheap sword that was made in the same way, with a nut and bolt clearly visible under the loose kashira. It is sold under the name 'Zhong' katana or 'Flying Geese/crane/swan' katana so look out for it. The market has been quite literally flooded of late with numerous swords that look half decent in the website photos, some even with bo-hi and wooden saya. Another thing to beware of is anything labelled as being made from J2 stainless, as it is worse even than those alleged to be 440.

    It is a great shame really, as it surely cannot be too costly to make these blades with a pegged tang, so why do they deliberately make such crap. I know that the Spanish stainless blades get a bad press from most experts, and I have been told by people on this forum that they are so unstable that they may explode at any moment (though I've never heard of this happening), but this is what 99% of us were waving about before the likes of Paul Chen came along.

    I now have a PK for tameshigiri and have just bought a splendid Nami Iaito from Paul Richardson, but it is a pity that there is no longer a decent budget sword that will stand up to a bit of a battering to save spoiling the aesthetics of the nicer blades in one's collection.

    There is a paradox that South East Asian cottage industries can turn out indestructible furniture made from heavy tough wood, but then make weaponry that aint fit to cut cake!
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    Default budget weapons

    Well, all I can say is that when it comes to weapons you DO get what you pay for. Even Paul Chen stuff can be pretty bad at times. Take the first gen Shinto Katana, for instance. Lots of stuff wrong wit that when it first came out like blade tempering was bad, tang was too short, etc.
    When you consider that a samurai's sword would have cost him a years salary we should consider ourselves very fortunate that there are some VERY good products out there that are reasonably affordable. Paul Chen still makes the poractical Plus Katana and wakizashi and now the tanto too and they are all very reasonable in price. I just wonder when he is going to run out of railroad track for making his forged swords.:-)
    Word from the wise- if it says made in taiwan or pakistan on the blade- walk away from it- no better yet- RUN.

    Ed Green
    Ed Green
    http://www.Budoweapons.com

    Most times I find that if I just read and listen that foot never seems to enter my mouth.

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    Default as for spanish blades

    As for Spanish blades, it is not a knock against spain or it's products but frankly the steel that they use has one of two or both problems:

    1. the steel is so hard that it is brittle. the description you give sounds like they are using stainless 440c(the C is for cheap)or mild steel that has been quenched in a brine quenchant.

    2. proper tempering is not performed on the blades but rather taken up to critical heat then quenched and finished. tempering is an absolute must to relieve the stresses in metal after they are worked and heated for hardness. Hence the reason during the Japanese hardening process clay is added to the blade in areas where you want to control the heating of the blade. You WANt to have a bit of softness in the mune of the blade to absorb the shock during use. Without it the blade would simply crack or shatter on contact.

    3. My guesstimation is that Spanish blades have both of these problems and that would be the reason for "exploding" blades.

    Ed Green
    Ed Green
    http://www.Budoweapons.com

    Most times I find that if I just read and listen that foot never seems to enter my mouth.

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    Default

    Yes, I would never advocate the use of a stainless blade for any heavy duty use, and the fact that they nearly all come with plastic tsuka would not help much either, but I've never actually heard of one exploding, just that such a thing might happen, although it would have to be quite something even for one to break, let alone explode.

    But I don't think the occasional glancing blow against another blade in training would mean that every user takes their life in their hands.

    The worst thing I've seen happen is a blade coming out of the tsuka because of the practice of using plastic mekugi in the 1980s. At least most of them are brass or steel nowadays.

    I guess it's a case of the right tool for the job. Does anyone know how the Chen steel iaito stand up to such impact? (not that I'm in any hurry to scratch or chip my new sword!)

    I think that there is a balance between aspiring to owning a half decent training sword and frightening people on a tight budget away from buying a 'starter sword' for kata or slow controlled training exercises in the dojo. Instructors should really make the decision in each individual case, but there will still be accidents in peoples homes.

    The biggest worry for us today is that so many swords are being sold with virtually no control over where they end up. When members of the public start to become victims of increasing numbers of attacks from criminals who have gotten hold of swords, it will be academic as to what the quality of steel the offending blade was made from. Not many crackheads will splash out on a Last Legend cutting sword!

    "Exploding Blade" would be a good name for a film though!
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    That is the naginata from Bud-k. It's carbon steel though, not stainless.

    Ed, are you sure this particular naginata has the cheap rattail tang or did you say that because most wallhangers do? I was thinking about buying one but don't want to if the tang is bad.
    Robert Kerndt

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    "Exploding Blade" would be a good name for a film though!"

    Think I saw that in a dvd shop...
    Michael Kelly

    Ironically neither a Niten Ichi practitioner or in fact a ninja.

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    Originally posted by niten ninja
    "Exploding Blade" would be a good name for a film though!"

    Think I saw that in a dvd shop...
    Yes it's about a British ninja who goes round all the council estates stabbing anyone in a hooded sweatshirt with any item of Burberry whatsoever, and the world is a better place. it starts with some young piece of council scum saying "Gemmaaar, av you got a fivaaar?" and then he gets stabbed with a blade that explodes.

    Another gin and tonic I think, hic....
    Adam C R Hurley -
    I know nothing - Manuel, Fawlty Towers.

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    yeah a true classic with a sound political message...
    Michael Kelly

    Ironically neither a Niten Ichi practitioner or in fact a ninja.

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    Speaking of exploding blades, go here
    (easier to right-click, and save)
    Jon Gillespie

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    Default Robert....

    No Robert I am NOT sure that the one Adam is speaking of is the one from Bud K. I have taken two different models of these things down and I believe they both have somehwat the same quality of koshirae and tang "style" on them. Both had carbon steel blades.
    Like I said ":what do you want for 30-45 dollars" You aren't going to get one for that kind of money that will hold up to any kind of abuse. Truthfully these items, IMHO, are made and sold to people not THINKING that anyone that purchases one might be able to use it. they are simply for decoration nothing more and nothing less.

    Ed Green
    Ed Green
    http://www.Budoweapons.com

    Most times I find that if I just read and listen that foot never seems to enter my mouth.

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