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Thread: Where Does The Power come from?

  1. #1
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    Question Where Does The Power come from?

    A debate came up in regards to where a batter's power come from and it eventually turned into where does the power come from when one kicks.

    My argument is that it comes from the ground and travels up the leg into the hip, but my co-worker feels it begins in the hip.

    Can anyone shed some light on it.
    "Qasim" Uriah Gardner

    "I'd like to think there are always... possibilities."

  2. #2
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    Take feet off ground. Kick.

    No ground, no power.

    Ground, some power.

    Ground and hip, much power.

    Kick, punch, block, all same.

    (If the ground didn't matter, why do batters spend so much time 'digging in'?)
    Respectfully
    Mark W. Swarthout, Shodan

  3. #3
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    I'd add that the ground facilitates one's ability to deliver a standing kick (though even that is not quite accurate; envision hanging from a tree branch and kicking). But in this scenerio, if we take as given that one delivers a kick while standing, then the ground facilitates one's ability to kick. The degree of power that the kick delivers is effected by the hip rotation more than any other single element. Similarly, power in a punch is effected by the hip rotation: a jab requires minimal hip rotation as is not typically a knock out punch; a cross utilizes hip rotation and can be a fight stopper.
    Rob Canestrari

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    Depends on what you mean by power, too. Some definitions are 1. force, 2. work done to the target as in how much they move back, and 3. how much it hurts, which is more of a tricky definition. I'm going to consider kicking with these three definitions for a second.

    You can deliver a very fast kick, with lots of force from the hip, that just bounces off the target. F=ma=1/2mv^2, so the fast kick will deliver a lot of force, but without the back foot planted correctly, the target won't move. This kick is NOT useless, this is exactly the sort of thing that can be delivered to the nuts before someone can block. However, it only hurts if delivered to a "soft" location like testicles. So that satisfies force and pain, but does no work.

    You can also do a shoving kick to the stomach to move someone back, with the leg planted, but no real whip from the hip, which doesn't hurt, has little force due to low speed, but does mechanical work.

    Then there is a kick with both hip action and a planted foot. It will deliver no more FORCE than the first type, the foot moves no faster, but will move the person, and hurt a lot more no matter where it is delivered? Why is that?
    The reason is the planted foot. This foot is not so much to deliver the initial force, but to resist the equal and opposite counterforce. (I've seen a kick delivered without planted foot in a tournament, the kicker hit, fell on his butt, and got the point anyway. This is why I hate tournaments.) Resisting the counterforce allows the foot to penetrate more deeply than the kick that relies on pure speed. Locked muscles and bone can bounce the first kick, because it's so fast, with a lot of impulse, but they cannot bounce the second nearly as well. Resisting the counterforce allows the kick to transition to a push, which is what actually moves the person, not the initial impact.
    (It's difficult to tell the difference, though, because the penetration and pain in a well-delivered kick cause a person's body to break down, allowing you to move them further than if they were capable of resisting. If a kick changes the ability of the target to resist motion, which is not inertia in this case, but bracing and friction, then the physics gets really nasty.)
    The pain is caused by the foot being able to push through the armoring of bone and muscle. This can be demonstrated by comparing kicks with the flat of the foot, kicks with the ball of the foot, and kicks with the "footfist"(fisted toes). As you decrease the size, you increase the pressure of the kick (P=F/A) and it hurts more because you're hitting with a more penetrating kick. You can't kick as hard with each successive kick, but you don't really need to.


    I should point out, btw, that the physics of this is far more complex than the simplified version I'm presenting here. Among topics I don't have time, room, or patience to go into are such things as the shockwave-like effects caused by certain ways of striking, the effects of the extraordinarily complex and variable material that the body is made of, the effect of striking on nerves, etc. All this has an effect on power, which in my opinion is an emergent property arising from a combination of many things. All power is relative, for one thing. I don't care if you can punch at 90 miles an hour if I'm able to move back at 50 for just long enough to take the sting out of it. Relatively, that's 40mph.

    Anyway, that's about a buck right there, so I'm out 98 cents.
    Trevor Johnson

    Low kicks and low puns a specialty.

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    Power comes from hara, koshi, and efficiency in motion.
    T.J. Garrett
    Okinawa, Japan

    The Chibana Project
    http://chibanaproject.blogspot.com

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