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Thread: Naginatajutsu & Sojutsu - FAQ

  1. #1
    pdavidson6 Guest

    Default Naginatajutsu & Sojutsu - FAQ

    I'm a newbie to the martial arts scene and I have some general questions to ask:

    1) I'm most interested in learning a style that focuses on the use of the longstaff or bo. I'm not sure the name- I've heard Bojutsu is the way to go. As I said I've never done this before so I really don't know what I'm talking about.

    2) Is there a style of Koryubudo or Kobudo that focuses on the longstaff?

    3) I live in Orlando Florida, is there anybody who teaches the longstaff?

    4) How long does it take to become well-trained in such an art?

    Any information would help. This is something I've been trying to get into for almost six months now. Please let me know all the pros/cons associated with- and also if it's a good way to build muscle mass and/or increse stamina.

    Thanks-
    Patrick

  2. #2
    Gene Williams Guest

    Default

    Richard Kelley over in East Orlando teaches many bo kata and applications. He is Shito-ryu. Most of the time, you will find weapons taught as a part of a karate regimen. Shito-ryu has lots of weapons. Kelly is a good instructor. If you'd like his number, pm me.
    Gene

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    Kenpo karate trains with the bo.

    I know two Okinawan styles - Kenshin and Yamani. Kenshin can be learned fairly well in a matter of weeks/months if you are adept with weapons. Yamani, on the other hand, is something best learned when you have a few years to devote steadily to it.

    Hayashi-Ha Shitoryu Kai makes Kenshin Ryu part of their regular training for 5th kyu and up.

    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    Smile

    Hi!

    Not to barge in, but this Kenshin Ryu is not to be confused with the TV anime and manga "Rurouni Kenshin," which is made up and has nothing to do with the anime. hehehe, I just could not resist mentioning this...

    Anyway... Harvey,

    What is Kenshin and Yamani Ryu? I never heard about them before. Please tell me more? The only place I ever heard of the word "Yamani" is in Tamora Pierce's books in her Tortall series. Most recently, in the "Protector of the Small" quartet that I have read. The author's books have many Japanese influences. In her books, Yamani are a group of Islands and the people are called the Yamani. So, she must know of this Ryu. Well, she also chose Naginata as the art the Yamani practice.

    Anyway, can you please tell me about them? I'd like that!
    Carolyn Hall


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    Default Re: Longstaff- help me out please!!!

    Originally posted by pdavidson6
    I'm a newbie to the martial arts scene and I have some general questions to ask:

    1) I'm most interested in learning a style that focuses on the use of the longstaff or bo. I'm not sure the name- I've heard Bojutsu is the way to go. As I said I've never done this before so I really don't know what I'm talking about.

    2) Is there a style of Koryubudo or Kobudo that focuses on the longstaff?

    3) I live in Orlando Florida, is there anybody who teaches the longstaff?

    4) How long does it take to become well-trained in such an art?

    Any information would help. This is something I've been trying to get into for almost six months now. Please let me know all the pros/cons associated with- and also if it's a good way to build muscle mass and/or increse stamina.

    Thanks-
    Patrick Davidson
    Hi Mr. Davidson,

    Speaking of the Naginata and the Japanese art called Naginata...

    Naginata is a staff(glaive) art. Erm.. I forgot the other term used for the Naginata. Sorry. You might want to try that art out too.

    It takes lots of time to master any martial art. Probably a life time to get any good really. You never stop learning. I mean, you can get good, but you can't master anything in a short period of time, if ever. It just takes a long time, a lot of patience, and loads of dedication and a willingness to work hard, and getting to the dojo to learn, so someday you could be decent at it. I do Kendo, and gosh... to be good at it? I think it's gonna take my whole life!

    Well, I hope you find what pleases you best. Try going to different dojos of different arts to see what they are about, so you get an idea to see what interests you. That's the best way.

    Good luck!
    Carolyn Hall


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    I noticed the similarity between the book and the bojutsu style. Not a coincidence I think.

    Yamanni is a flowing bo style, kenshin is a "hard style" for the bo. One of the explanations I heard is that kenshin is what was taught to the peasants as it could be learned fairly quickly. Yamanni was left to the samurai as the fluid movements were much harder to master and required much practice.

    Oshiro sensei in San Francisco is the US master of Yamanni Ryu. He even has a video tape available which goes over some of the kata.

    I think you will need to travel to the west coast to find a yamanni sensei. Most IKKA Kenpo schools will be able to teach you the basics of bo work, and those are everyplace.

    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    Default Re: Re: Longstaff- help me out please!!!

    Originally posted by Kaoru
    ...Speaking of the Naginata and the Japanese art called Naginata...Naginata is a staff (glaive) art. Erm.. I forgot the other term used for the Naginata. Sorry. You might want to try that art out too.
    Hi Kaoru-san,

    Another name for a glaive, and probably more common, is "halberd."

    I wouldn't classify naginata as a "staff" art, so much as a "polearm" art. When I think of a staff I think of weapons like the bo, jo, hanbo, quarterstave, etc. that do not have blades.

    Polearms, like the naginata, yari, etc., share some traits with staffs, but because they are bladed they have other traits that are dissimilar.

    Kenshin Ryu is a style of Ryukyu Kobudo (Okinawan Weapons) of which Hayashi Teruo is the Soke. He is also Saiko Shihan of Hayshi-ha Shito Ryu Karate.

    Kenshin Ryu includes nunchaku, bo, sai, kama, tatami tenbe, tonfa, etc. If you ever get to see the video Budo: Art of Killing, Hayashi Sensei demonstrates several of the Kenshin Ryu forms along with several sequences on Karate-do.

    Hayashi Sensei is my karate teacher's teacher, and I got to meet him once back when I was still studying karate and kobudo. The breadth and depth of his knowledge and skill was awe inspiring.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Default Re: Longstaff- help me out please!!!

    Originally posted by pdavidson6
    I'm a newbie to the martial arts scene and I have some general questions to ask:

    1) I'm most interested in learning a style that focuses on the use of the longstaff or bo. I'm not sure the name- I've heard Bojutsu is the way to go. As I said I've never done this before so I really don't know what I'm talking about.
    Yes, the art of the bo is called bojutsu. There really is no "Bodo" that I've ever heard of.

    Originally posted by pdavidson6
    2) Is there a style of Koryubudo or Kobudo that focuses on the longstaff?
    Several koryu include the bo, but -- unlike the jo -- I've never heard of a ryu where it was the exclusive or primary weapon.

    It is widely used by many karate practitioners, but the methods are not exactly the same as in the Japanese styles (or Chinese, for that matter). In the US, though, that would probably be the most plentiful type of school you'd find.

    Originally posted by pdavidson6
    4) How long does it take to become well-trained in such an art?
    I would say two to three years to become reasonably proficient, and a lifetime to really master it; the same as any other martial art.

    Practicing bo kata will indeed increase your stamina if done frequently enough, and with intent. I wouldn't say it's particularly good at building muscle mass, but it's very good for building muscle tone.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Default

    Originally posted by Shitoryu Dude
    I noticed the similarity between the book and the bojutsu style. Not a coincidence I think.

    Yamanni is a flowing bo style, kenshin is a "hard style" for the bo. One of the explanations I heard is that kenshin is what was taught to the peasants as it could be learned fairly quickly. Yamanni was left to the samurai as the fluid movements were much harder to master and required much practice.

    Oshiro sensei in San Francisco is the US master of Yamanni Ryu. He even has a video tape available which goes over some of the kata.

    I think you will need to travel to the west coast to find a yamanni sensei. Most IKKA Kenpo schools will be able to teach you the basics of bo work, and those are everyplace.


    I think the pesant/samurai thing is total bunkum. For one thing, Mr. Hayashi wasn't that old and he was the originator/Founder of Kenshin Ryu!

    Kenshin Ryu was Mr. Hayashi's expression of Ryukyu Kobudo, based upon his interpretation of the Kobudo of Shinken Taira and Kenko Nakaima, his weapons teachers. For a time, Mr. Hayashi was a regional chief instructor for Mr. Taira. I remember hearing that Kenshin is an alternate pronunciation of Nakaima.

    Yamane Ryu, is also an Okinawan bojutsu art. It descends from Sanda Chinen to Masami Chinen, to Chogi Kishaba to Messrs. Toshihiro Oshiro and Kiyoshi Nishime. Mr. Oshiro taught Harvey's instructor, Mr. Minakami, and myself. In recent years, Mr. Oshiro has incorporated other weapons into the kobudo system that he teaches, but the main element of his kobudo is the bo. As he told me once, "Yamane Ryu is Bo. The rest is just 'MSG' for flavor."

    Rob

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    I've trained at two of Oshiro's seminars - hard not to smile when I read that MSG remark.

    You always end up with sweat soaked through your dogi, but he has such a happy disposition and makes so many small jokes that you are grinning the whole time.

    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    Default Bo

    Patrick

    If you haven't done so already, you might find more fertile ground in the Ryukyuan Martial Arts forum. Bojutsu and karate are strongly related.

    Regards
    Andy Watson

    Minoru hodo
    Kobe o tareru
    Inaho ka na

    http://www.simenergy.co.uk

  12. #12
    Jonathon Sumner Guest

    Smile Bo

    Yes there are Koryu Ryuha that are Bo schools. Two examples:

    Takubushima Ryu Bojutsu
    Muhimuteki Ryu (called a Jo but is longer like a bo)

    and there are Ryuha that teach the Bo as weapon such as Takenouchi Ryu.

    The problem you are going to find is that the vast majority of training opportunities exist only in Japan. There are opportunities outside of Japan but finding qualified and skilled instructors with permission to teach a school's system is like finding the needle in the haystack. You might have to travel if you are deadset on a Koryu school.

    Like others have said, modern systems and those from Okinawa are probly going to be your best best for Bo instruction. Just because it isn't Koryu doesn't mean it won't work or be of value.

    If you are interested in the staff as a weapon don't exclude systems that are not Japanese in origin. I don't have any personal experience myself, but I think England has a history of the staff as a weapon and perhaps there are others as well out there. It would be cool if you could find something obscure...

    As to your Q3: I wouldn't know. I do think that you should spend the time to look around and don't just jump into the first thing that comes your way.

    As to Q4... well that's all up to you. If you find a system worth doing and a group of people worth associating with, then profeciency isn't that big of a deal, do it for life!

    For self-defence you might like a baseball bat better. No one will ask you why you are carrying a bat around the park but walking down the street with a six foot stick is going to get you noticed... besides it's hard to get a stick that long out of a car in a hurry.

    Good Luck

    J. (take me with a grain of salt) Sumner

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    I do Kobudo from the Ryukyu Kobudo lineage of Taira Shinken , & I live in Tampa . My instructor is Nakamoto Masahiro Sensei , he was a direct student of Taira Shinken Sensei . I was given permission from Nakamoto Sensei to start a study group here in the United States . If you are interested , please contact me privately .
    I also have friends in Ocala , that do Ryukyu Kobudo under Hidemei Tomayose Sensei ; and my best friend in Zephyrhills does Matayoshi Kobudo under Gakiya Sensei . I can put you in touch w/ any of them , as well , if you want . We all do bojutsu as part of the syllabus .
    Good Luck in your search !

    David Somers
    www.angelfire.com/fl5/okinawagojuryu

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    I forgot to mention , I have another friend in Ocala that does Matayoshi Kobudo , as well . He was a direct student of Katsuyoshi Kanei . I could put you in touch w/ any of them , if you wish .

    David

  15. #15
    pdavidson6 Guest

    Default Honest Answers

    It's amazing how fast this forum gets the frank and honest answers to my questions- and quick at that. Jonathan- thanks for being so straight up, but don't worry. I'm really not getting into this just for self defense. That's part of it, yes, but it's much more than that.

    I respect the Japanese Culture since a not-so-recent 4 month visit to Japan. I don't know what it is, but the
    whole place, with its arts, martial or otherwise is something I hold a deep respect for. I want to learn a style in order to relieve the stress of everyday life through a healthy exercise both spiritually and mentally as well as physically.

    Why the interest in a bo or longstaff...
    I'm not sure really. Just seems like fluid movements- and I like that.

    Hopefully I can finally figure out which form, or, style, or whatever it is I need (and I'm doing some research too ) that lets me follow through with this. So keep it coming everybody! I'll post on here for life if I can find what I'm truly looking for.

    -Patrick Davidson

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