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Thread: Keysi Fighting Method

  1. #16
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    Amen Brian
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  2. #17
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    Default Bruce number one fan to the rescue!

    QUOTE by kimiwane,Recently, I've been watching a video called "Bruce Lee: A Warrior's Journey" or something like that.

    Reply,I hope you watched more than one single video before feeling confident enough to rip him.

    Quote by Kimiwane,But 33 years later, I get a better perspective on him. I see him now and I think that his experience was actually pretty shallow to say the things he said. Talking about a system of no system, way of no way, and so on, the Classical Mess, and Real Chinese Culture. He contradicts himself and seems confused in certain ways. He obviously had some great talent, but stands as an example of lack of cultivation.

    Reply,Actually his experience for that time period (over 30 yrs ago)was leaps and bounds ahead of a lot of people for that era.It is the prototype that is used today for many MMA practicioners that crosstrain around the world.If you don't understand what he meant by "way as no way or system as no system then you need to read more about his life his art and writings like the tao of jeet kun -do.

    Quote by kimiwane,The movie features Linda Lee telling the story of Man Jack Wong's "challenge" to Lee and how that fight went. I've also read the other side of that story and find it far more credible. After all, the Real Chinese Culture includes things like systems and specializations. And while claiming to defend and properly represent Chinese culture, he tossed a lot of it out the window. He was an extremely angry man.

    Reply,Just because he felt a lot of nationalistic pride for being chinnese does not mean he felt the systems and specializations of the arts could not be improved upon.he did not toss everytyhing out the window,just the classical mess as he likes to point out.

    Quoted by Kiminawe,Yet, a lot of what he talked about in Jeet Kune Do sounded like ordinary descriptions of baguazhang. It has various choreographed forms and two-man sets, but the ideals of application are to be spontaneous and near formless. And baguazhang has been around a long time. So it was available when Bruce was young and he could have trained deeply in that to reach his aim. But he rejected it and tried to reinvent the circle.

    Reply,never heard of this connection before!



    Quoted by Kiminawe,Bruce was really cretive and very motivated, but, frankly, his technical repertoire was really limited to Wing Chun. I know, he "studied" Northern Shaolin and such, but it was self-teaching out of books. Yip Man is the only person he acknowledged as his teacher. He rejected many great masters to become a famous dead man at 32.

    Reply,First of all I find it hillarious that Bruce is even mentioned as being limited to win chun,if anything Bruce was better known for discarding his Win chun roots and learning many other fighting disciplines.As far as him rejecting other great masters he was known to train with the likes of gene lebell,wally jay,Hayward nishioka and the legendary Joe lewis just to name a few.
    Last edited by hectokan; 31st October 2005 at 21:17.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  3. #18
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    Medickev

    You said:

    "I guarentee that any grappler will beat any striker"

    ANY grappler?-no matter how "green" or unskilled, or clumsy?

    No matter how much of a slacker they are?

    No matter how skilled and hard and tough their oppt?

    Wow! Cool---since I used to wrestle that makes ME totally unbeatable by strikers.

    Hear THAT "Iron" MIke Tyson?

    Your mine--unless Medikev gets to you first!

    And here I thought that martial arts really came down to personal skill, drive and dedication and good solid teaching to get better.

    And all I needed to do was train the way Medickev tells me too and I could be unbeatable.

    Wish I had known that 20 years ago..

    Sheesh........


    Chris Thomas

  4. #19
    Finny Guest

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    Just a couple of things...

    Hector - Bruce Lee's philosophy, and general attitude towards MA, had been around for years - indeed, as long as MA have been around. A lot of his philosphical diatribes on MA were simply a product of the times he was living in - it was the hippy era, and most of his stuff is just generic hippy 'philosophy' repackaged and applied to MA.

    Kimiwane - Depending on what you mean by "a long time", bagua has not really been around that long - Dong Hai Chuan created/publicised it around the turn of the century, so it's only about a century old. Also, although I understand there are a couple of Cheng style Bagua guys in Hong Kong, it's not a southern chinese art like Wing Chun or Choy Lee Fut, so is not as common in Hong Kong. Which could explain why Bruce didn't learn bagua.

  5. #20
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by Finny
    Just a couple of things...

    Hector - Bruce Lee's philosophy, and general attitude towards MA, had been around for years - indeed, as long as MA have been around. A lot of his philosphical diatribes on MA were simply a product of the times he was living in - it was the hippy era, and most of his stuff is just generic hippy 'philosophy' repackaged and applied to MA.
    .
    In part you're right that some of his ideas may stem from "the product of the times."

    Yet , like you mentioned, others had been around for years and it wasn't simply hippy stuff. A great deal of Bruce Lee's philosophy goes a lot deeper. One example is the concept of "the way of no way" which makes most traditional martial artist's mind go Tilt.

  6. #21
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    Cool

    Quote Originally Posted by Finny

    Hector - Bruce Lee's philosophy, and general attitude towards MA, had been around for years - indeed, as long as MA have been around. A lot of his philosphical diatribes on MA were simply a product of the times he was living in - it was the hippy era, and most of his stuff is just generic hippy 'philosophy' repackaged and applied to MA.

    Sure the Bruce lee philosophy might have been around for years before his time but during his time most of the population thought that their particular system or style was the best.A karate man always thought his !!!! was the bomb,a judo man always thought his game was unbeatable and a kung fu man believed along the same mental thought process. Not that things have changed much if any in that dept but by in large today you have a larger mass of practcioners that don't adhere to that silly dogma one bit,as they realize that It's all good,thanks to Bruce

    Regardless of wether Bruce was really the best or not(I happen to believe he was a pretty good practicioner myself)outside of the movie screen persona it was his popularity along with his own personal beliefs that got a lot people thinking (thanks to his popularity ofcourse)more outside the lines of strict traditions.This way of thinking is not really a hippy thing or even a generic one.As a matter of fact I happened to have trained side by side next to a lot of hippies of that era that smoked more ganja than most of the opium kung fu masters did when they were trying to figure out how animal movements related to fighting.

    A lot of those hippie friends expanded their mindset even more deeply into stricter traditions and most went completely in the opposite direction of bruce intentions,most still cannot grasp or understand bruce message after 30 odd years of mind altering colombian gold invasions. lol

    Different strokes(or stokes in this case) for different folks.
    Last edited by hectokan; 2nd November 2005 at 22:40.
    Hector Gomez
    "Todo es Bueno"

  7. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bustillo, A.
    A great deal of Bruce Lee's philosophy goes a lot deeper. One example is the concept of "the way of no way" which makes most traditional martial artist's mind go Tilt.
    I'd disagree with you, there - recently on the ShorinjiKempo forum we've been having a debate about the meaning of Shu-Ha-Ri, which I'm sure loads of you know more about than me (I'm a 23-year-old baby Budoka!). But the 'way of no way' and 'form of no form' sound a lot to me like high-level martial arts, ie you break the mold and develop your own style, whilst still keeping within the confines of your martial art.

    An Aikidoka or a Karateka is always going to look like an aikidoka/karateka in a fight - but they aren't going to apply a robocop-style "He is punching me in the head I must move my arm up now and then I will block him and then I will counter now" mentality (like I do at the moment) - rather they'll simply react and use whatever works at that moment.

    As for 'Any grappler could beat any striker', well, that's probably true - in an MMA competition with MMA rules where you aren't allowed to kick them in the goolies or you can't run away and you're both thinking about lasting 3/5/12 rounds of 3 minutes each.

    In a streetfight? It's usually whomever throws the first punch that wins, is it not? In that case, learning to hit really really really hard is probably the best success plan, ie the situation is reversed, and striking is the best strategy.
    JC McCrae

  8. #23
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    You're right Shu-Ha-Ri does sound similiar. The problem I have with Bruce Lee's amazing philosophy is that it is a bit obvious.

    As for 'Any grappler could beat any striker', well, that's probably true - in an MMA competition with MMA rules where you aren't allowed to kick them in the goolies or you can't run away and you're both thinking about lasting 3/5/12 rounds of 3 minutes each.

    That attack is very over rated. A possible reason for the success of some MA over others, is that some arts like BJJ have a large percentage of people who train for it. How many koryu jujutsu people do you know train for MMA? Probably not many.

    "In a streetfight? It's usually whomever throws the first punch that wins, is it not? In that case, learning to hit really really really hard is probably the best success plan, ie the situation is reversed, and striking is the best"

    I prefer to run away.
    Michael Kelly

    Ironically neither a Niten Ichi practitioner or in fact a ninja.

  9. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by niten ninja
    How many koryu jujutsu people do you know train for MMA?

    None.


    Regards,
    - Alex Dale

  10. #25
    Bustillo, A. Guest

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    Quote Originally Posted by jailess
    I'd disagree with you, there - recently on the ShorinjiKempo forum we've been having a debate about the meaning of Shu-Ha-Ri, which I'm sure loads of you know more about than me But the 'way of no way' and 'form of no form' sound a lot to me like high-level martial arts, ie you break the mold and develop your own style, whilst still keeping within the confines of your martial art.
    .
    niten ninja wrote
    You're right Shu-Ha-Ri does sound similiar. The problem I have with Bruce Lee's amazing philosophy is that it is a bit obvious.

    ---------------------------------------------
    A. B. writes
    I would ask if you guys are joking but I take it you're not. Good or bad, whether we agree one is better or not just the mere fact of how systems like shorinji kempo, chinese kung fu, Okinawan, Japanese arts are taught and passed down... kata, training structure and methods sets it apart from Bruce Lee ideas. And 33 years later some of his ideas are still way ahead of what a lot of martial artisits are doing today.

    That's what's obvious.
    Last edited by Bustillo, A.; 4th November 2005 at 22:20.

  11. #26
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    "And 33 years later some of his ideas are still way ahead of what a lot of martial artisits are doing today."

    Which ones?

    "None."

    It was a retorical question.
    Michael Kelly

    Ironically neither a Niten Ichi practitioner or in fact a ninja.

  12. #27
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    How about crosstraining in different arts? Bruce was one of the first who began really doing this to another level. I'm not talking about Shorin Ryu guys visiting a Goju dojo either.

    He did his Wing Chun, trained graplling techniques with Gene Lebell which can be seen in Enter the Dragon with Samo Hung, he worked Korean arts with Jhoon Rhee and Chuck Norris to help with hois striking and studied Filipino Arts with his own student and protege Dan Inosanto.

    Dan took this and ran with it as he has incorporated BJJ and Muay Thai into his arsenal as well

    Recently after the Abu Dhabi Comabt Championships more BJJ people are cross training with Judo, Sambo and Wrestlers to further their own knowledge.

    So in a sense his ideas on crosstraining have still been in use.

    Regards,

    Mike Mitchell

  13. #28
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    I run with what an old hard head told me in a bar once as a young fella.

    Hard head; Just remember the old "one -three!"

    callow youth; Don't you mean the old one two?

    hard head; no, you usually get that one........
    Lurking in dark alleys may be hazardous to other peoples health........

  14. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by niten ninja
    As for 'Any grappler could beat any striker', well, that's probably true - in an MMA competition with MMA rules where you aren't allowed to kick them in the goolies or you can't run away and you're both thinking about lasting 3/5/12 rounds of 3 minutes each.

    "In a streetfight? It's usually whomever throws the first punch that wins, is it not? In that case, learning to hit really really really hard is probably the best success plan, ie the situation is reversed, and striking is the best"

    I prefer to run away.
    Yes if you are playing "by the rules" then the art that it favors has the advantage. But, in the street there are no rules. Usually the first one to stick his fingers in the others eyes wins...

    I prefer to strike vitals and break hands before they reach me.
    All My Best,

    Todd Wayman

    "…since karate is a martial art, you must practice with the utmost seriousness from the very beginning."

    - G. Funakoshi, Karate-Do Nyumon, 1943

  15. #30
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    Mr. Kelley

    In your 18 years have you been in alot of street fights?

    I can tell you in my 38 years many street fights end up on the ground. It's not always who hits first, but at times it is who hits first. A clinch or grab usually happens as well, even if it's just to grab and hit the person.

    Some who know me on here know I've been a Bouncer in Miami and Fort Lauderdale, and still am, for a number of years. I've seen many encounters and some numerous times in one night, grappling or a knowledge of it is essential.

    I do prefer striking as that is what I do best, but my limited experience in grappling has helped me immensely.

    Regards,

    Mike Mitchell

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