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Thread: Asayama Ichiden ryu jujutsu

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    Default Asayama Ichiden ryu jujutsu

    If you look at some of the techniques in Hatsumi Sensei's stick fighting book (co-written with Chambers) there are several techniques (Hishigi - short stick) from Asayama Ichiden-ryu.
    The Asayama Ichiden ryu DOES NOT include any "crushing stick" (hishigi) methods. The hishigijutsu techniques that Hatsumi covers in his book are from Shindo Tenshin ryu according to Hatsumi. Ueno Takashi was the 8th head of Shindo Tenshin ryu.
    Last edited by George Kohler; 15th November 2005 at 14:40.
    David Kemlo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori
    The Asayama Ichiden ryu DOES NOT include any "crushing stick" (hishigi) methods. The hishigijutsu techniques that Hatsumi covers in his book are from Shindo Tenshin ryu according to Hatsumi. Ueno Takashi was the 8th head of Shindo Tenshin ryu.
    David,

    YOU ARE WRONG. Asayama Ichiden-ryu DOES have hishigi-jutsu. Shindo Tenshin-ryu also has Hishigi-jutsu. The techniques in the book contains both Asayama Ichiden-ryu and Shindo Tenshin-ryu.

    As to which technique in the book belongs to Asayama Ichiden-ryu, please refer to page 100. The technique is "hiki otoshi" and belongs to the "jodan no kurai" section of Asayama Ichiden-ryu and not Shindo Tenshin-ryu.
    George Kohler

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    David,

    YOU ARE WRONG. Asayama Ichiden-ryu DOES have hishigi-jutsu. Shindo Tenshin-ryu also has Hishigi-jutsu. The techniques in the book contains both Asayama Ichiden-ryu and Shindo Tenshin-ryu.


    The technique is "hiki otoshi" and belongs to the "jodan no kurai" section of Asayama Ichiden-ryu
    Pardon me? No mention of hishigijutsu in my notes and I've never come across it in my practice (I have practiced Asayama Ichiden ryu on and off for several years now under Hattori Makoto in Atsugi Japan).

    No mention of such techniques in the Asayama Ichiden Ryu Yawara Taijutsu Gokui Zukai Hidensho either.

    Could you kindly elaborate further?
    David Kemlo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori
    Could you kindly elaborate further?
    Tanemura Shoto Sensei.
    George Kohler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori

    Could you kindly elaborate further?
    Kaminaga Shigemi, Tanaka Fumon, Serge Mol...

    There are several lines of transmission for Asayama Ichiden Ryu and the one I am most familiar with has it. It is even referenced in Serge Mol's book, Classical Weaponry of Japan on pages 94-98.
    Christopher Moon

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    My Teacher (Kai Kuniyuki Sensei of Nippon Budoin Seibukan) is a direct student of Kaminaga Shigemi Soke of Asayama Ichiden Ryu. He has shown me Hishigi techniques from the Ryu (including Ueno Sensei's drawings). I seem to remember that there are about a dozen techniques or so in addition to 25 Hanbo waza. He has also studied Shinto Tenshin Koryu Kempo with Kaminaga Shigemi Soke, and it is correct that there are Hishigi techniques in that Ryu as well.

    Regards
    Flemming Madsen
    Nippon Budoin Seibukan

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori
    Pardon me? No mention of hishigijutsu in my notes and I've never come across it in my practice (I have practiced Asayama Ichiden ryu on and off for several years now under Hattori Makoto in Atsugi Japan).
    Hmmm...If you are practicing the same branch that Ueno Takashi Sensei was soke of, maybe you need to ask Hattori Makoto about it.

    I seem to recall that almost all taijutsu kata in Asayama Ichiden-ryu, if not all, can be done with a "hassun hishigi" (I believe the techniques are called bogyakudori - I'll have to check my notes when I get home).
    George Kohler

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    I assume that your teacher is Hattori Masanobu, student of Kaminaga Shigemi? Did you know that Kaminaga has stated that the Asayama Ichiden-ryu Yawara Taijutsu Gokui Zukai Hidensho does not cover "all techniques"?
    George Kohler

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    I will check on the hishigijutsu techniques of Asayama Ichiden ryu with Hattori Makoto. As I said, I am unaware that there are any. Perhaps a different branch or perhaps I haven't been introduced to them yet? Or perhaps it's a case of things being added to puff up the curriculum?

    Regards


    (Admin note: merged post from a different thread - George Kohler)
    Last edited by George Kohler; 16th November 2005 at 12:01. Reason: merging
    David Kemlo

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    I assume that your teacher is Hattori Masanobu, student of Kaminaga Shigemi?
    No, no relation.

    Perhaps you are confusing the hishigi with the tansaibo, I have practiced bogyakudori with the Tansaibo.These techniques are significantly different than hishigijutsu.

    A hishigi is 39cm where as the tansaibo is 24cm and is much thinner, about the thickness of a pencil.
    David Kemlo

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    Both the Asayama Ichiden-ryu and Shindo Tenshin-ryu refer their hand held sticks as "Tanbo". In the Asayama Ichiden-ryu they use two sizes.

    Also, there are different lengths for Hishigi. One is 39cm and the other is shorter and called "hassun hishigi".

    Here is section from an article that was in the magazine Hiden on hanbojutsu and tanbojutsu, by Tanemura Sensei:

    We call a stick that is exactly one half the size of a bo a “cane” or “staff” and anything shorter than that is a “tanbou.” If we go shorter than a tanbo, there is the “hishigi”, but the hishigi is also seen as a kind of tanbou. Asayama Ichiden Ryu and Shinto Tenshin Ryu is famous for its “Hishigi-jutsu.”
    He has also stated:

    Gyakutori bojutsu is the Ura (i.e., inner) techniques of Tanbojutsu (short stick techniques).
    Last edited by George Kohler; 16th November 2005 at 12:23.
    George Kohler

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    Quite obviously we are talking about two differing lineages with two differing opinions.

    Thanks for explaining your side of the coin. I should not have been so general in my original statement it seems.
    David Kemlo

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori
    Quite obviously we are talking about two differing lineages with two differing opinions.

    Thanks for explaining your side of the coin. I should not have been so general in my original statement it seems.
    Just courious, which branch of Asayama Ichiden-ryu does Hattori Makoto teach?
    George Kohler

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hattori
    The Asayama Ichiden ryu DOES NOT include any "crushing stick" (hishigi) methods. The hishigijutsu techniques that Hatsumi covers in his book are from Shindo Tenshin ryu according to Hatsumi. Ueno Takashi was the 8th head of Shindo Tenshin ryu.
    Shinto Tenshin Ryu's name was changed during the Allied Occupation to Tenshin Koryu kempo (an FYI here). The branch of Asayama Ichiden ryu that Ueno sensei taught was primarily taijutsu, however there seems to be a heavy indication that small weapons could be used in their application - at least in his branch (George is spot on). My two bits.

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    Just courious, which branch of Asayama Ichiden-ryu does Hattori Makoto teach?
    Until I started discussing it in this thread with you, I didn't think that there were differing branches of the ryu. What I have been taught is different however, so I will have to check on which "branch" it is that I have been practicing.
    David Kemlo

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