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Thread: Modesto Martial Artist Stops Robber

  1. #1
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    Default Modesto Martial Artist Stops Robber

    Saw this today on ABC News's Website - I used to live in Modesto so it made me smile <g>.

    http://us.video.netscape.com/video.i...pmmsid=1443982

    Guy is kinda goofy but got the job done!

    FWIW,

    Carlos
    E. Carlos Estrella, Jr.

    The strength of a man is not measured in how much he can lift, how many he can fight or how much he can endure, but in his capacity to admit his limitations and learn to successfully circumvent them.

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    Default Bad image for Budoka...

    I live near by and first heard of it on Good Morning America and then again
    on Air America.

    Personally, since there was no one in direct danger, I think he did
    the wrong thing.

    There was no one else in the store. The clerk invited the subject to
    "take it if he can". This goes against all training I ever recieved.
    The place is insured. So what's the problem with giving him the
    money and taking the picture of the van as he drives away?
    Then he goes on nation wide TV and announces he has black belts
    in 6 different arts.

    The guy is a Yahoo... IMO

    Peace
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

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    "The only thing required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

    I'm sure the guy didn't feel safe with a knife being waved at him. I mean, who knows? He could have been a psycho and just stuck the guy in the throat when he came to give up the money. I can't say I would have done much differently...
    Roberto Valenzuela
    Owari Kan-ryu sojutsu (尾張貫流槍術)
    Shinkage-ryu heiho (新陰流兵法)

    "Be intelligent, but do not be artificially intelligent." --Kung Fu Proverb

    "Culture Check: Korean Arts still determined to make indigenous martial history from 4,000 year old cave drawings. France counters by claiming Savaate developed from hunting woolly mammoths before Ice Age." --The Nth Degree

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    Another Iranian immigrant martial artist. This one is pretty cool and so is the one I see at judo. It's weird that a country in the axis of evil can have such cool immigrants.

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    Default I disagree...

    Quote Originally Posted by GTO
    "The only thing required for evil to triumph is that good men do nothing."

    I'm sure the guy didn't feel safe with a knife being waved at him. I mean, who knows? He could have been a psycho and just stuck the guy in the throat when he came to give up the money. I can't say I would have done much differently...
    Sorry to disagree. Any law enforcment officer would tell you
    to give them what they want as long as you don't go with them.
    It's all monetary and can be replaced.

    The robber had turned around and was walking out the door
    when the clerk kicked him in the back. I was once stuck-up working
    at a gas station. All you do is put your hands up, open the register, (which
    he closed in defiance) back away and say take what you want.
    Then, if he comes after you, you then defend yourself. It doesn't
    take a genius. To have given him the loot and then take the picture would
    not be standing idly by. The capture would have been the same end result.
    Budoka should be using their head. The big one one your shoulders.

    As for being Iranian, Iranians can be some of the nicest people you meet.
    Law of the desert is if someone comes to your tent, you feed and give
    them selter. Good people, bad government.
    Last edited by Nyuck3X; 20th December 2005 at 17:45. Reason: Added Iranian comment
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

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    Sorry to disagree. Any law enforcment officer would tell you
    to give them what they want as long as you don't go with them.
    Yep. That's exactly what any LEO would say. I'm sure that "give them what they want and hope they go away" is statistically the safest thing to do by far. Life is not necessarily about doing the safest thing though. Life is full of choices and chances. We all have to do what we consider "right" rather than what is considered "safe".

    While I agree that the guy is definitely a "yahoo", I can't say that I wouldn't have done the same thing.
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

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    I just would have shot him. I mean really, a rob a store with a knife? I'm going to put large holes in you.....
    Harvey Moul

    Fish and visitors stink after three days - Ben Franklin

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    While standing safely behind my keyboard I say I would have done the same... In reality who knows. IMHO…The guy should have just let the perp come closer without announcing his intentions and then when in range beat the hell out of him. I can’t stand little punks like that.
    All My Best,

    Todd Wayman

    "…since karate is a martial art, you must practice with the utmost seriousness from the very beginning."

    - G. Funakoshi, Karate-Do Nyumon, 1943

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    Giving them what they want is an option, and it may be the option you chose to take, but then again, it may not be. There is no law that says you have to give a robber what he wants. Think about it - you might as well open house and let the thieves in.

    It takes courage to fight. If I am in a similar situation I will have no plan ahead of time to give them what they want. I'll consider the moment and act accordingly.

    Also, there is nothing wrong with dying fighting to protect yourself or your property. I respect people who do that. Sometimes, it is right to fight, other times it is stupid to fight.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyuck3X
    Any law enforcment officer would tell you to give them what they want as long as you don't go with them. It's all monetary and can be replaced.
    Yeah, but it could be MY money

    And if true, why don't the police just let them take what they want?

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    Maybe it's all perspective.

    I'm a husband and father of three young boys. I have too much
    to lose over a fight for property that is, 1. not mine & 2. insured for loss.
    Plus the fact that I'm being payed minimum wage to die over it.

    Robbers aren't out to hurt people intentionally. They want to
    get the money and run. Why do you think he needs a weapon?
    He's commanding authority. If he wanted to kill someone, he
    would'nt have shown the knife and just walked up and stabbed him.

    If you want to talk senerios...

    1. Same thing happens up to the part where he follows the robber out the
    door. Outside he finds the robber face down on the deck. Standing over him
    is his buddy the look out, with a 12 gauge shotgun in hand.

    2. Same thing happens all the way to the arrest. Next day the robber's lawyer
    files a suit against the clerk and store owner sighting assult. The robber
    contends that he lost heart and was on the way out. The jury finds out that
    the clerk is a trained martial arts practioner and that he should have been
    able to recognize that he was no longer in a life threatening situation.
    They award the perp pain and suffering.

    What exactly did this guy gain? Bragging rights?
    And don't talk to me about defending life and property. I've had to
    do that before, and it's the stupid that do so when it's not needed.

    First rule of karate is, don't be there to recieve the impact.
    By closing the money drawer and telling the robber to "get it if he can",
    is an invitaion to be stabbed.

    Yes Rupert, there is a law stating you have to hand over the money.
    It's called human law. That's the law that states that it's stupid
    to die over something that can be replaced.

    No, it was not your money.

    It takes more courage to live for your friends and family than to die for no
    reason.

    And yes, sometimes the police do allow them to get away with the goods
    when human life is in danger.
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

  12. #12
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    And don't talk to me about defending life and property. I've had to
    do that before, and it's the stupid that do so when it's not needed.
    So, anyone that doesn't share your opinion is stupid? Thank you so much!
    I have seen various scenarios in my life where people have and have not fought back in many different situations. I grew up in a bad part of town. I've seen horrible things happen with either decision. Every single situation is different and can have many wide ranging repurcussions other than the simple "look, he didn't kill me" scenario which you've described. Some of those repurcussions can be a lot worse than simply dying.

    Ultimately, everyone has to decide for themselves what they can and can't live with. If someone has different ideas of that than you or I do, it doesn't make them stupid, just different.
    Paul Smith
    "Always keep the sharp side and the pointy end between you and your opponent"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyuck3X
    Maybe it's all perspective.

    Yes Rupert, there is a law stating you have to hand over the money.
    It's called human law.

    No, it was not your money.

    It takes more courage to live for your friends and family than to die for no
    reason.
    We had extortion in our school - not much - just 2p here, 2p there. Basically, it was "Lend me 2p, kid." Of course, if you said you had nothing they might search you, so the 'smaller' would end up giving to the 'larger' kid. Somehow, they pretended you were their frined when you gave them the 'tax' in attempt to make you feel part of the group or some such crap. When my brother went through the same school a few years after me it had gone up to 10p. Inflation, I guess.

    For my age I was rather small-average. One 'bully' though, was, strangely, even smaller and one day I refused him and he never bothered me again. Also, my best friend was rather large and he was with me when a senior asked me and him to lend 2p. My friend gave him 2p and said, "OK, but I want it back tomorrow." I was with him when they guy actually came up and returned the 2p the next day. We never got asked for 2p again -- from that particular group. It's all about 'negotiation' - according to some un-named, but nevertheless known, rules. Anyway, if hassled today, all lessons learned to date apply. I conceed that there are times when you might have to 'hand it over', but there are also times when it is wiser not to. Also, I grew taller and stronger ... and I choose not to live in a society where guns and knives are the norm. I have been hassled from time to time, but I am not phased by it at all - I can see right thorugh them. Since school, I have never had to give in once - well, except once when I was 'hassled' and I had my five year old kid in my arms. But perhaps because I had in in my arms, it did not escalate.

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    I live in Lodi...

    I think I should go hit up that gas station and give him a big pat on the back.

    Since the northern San Jaoquin Valley Squad has jumped in, give him one for me, too. I'm originally from Stockton.

    After that, Bryan, please sign your posts with your full name. Use the signature feature in the user cp.
    ********

    I am thinking like Paul, and I was faced with a knife at around age 18 or 19 but it was a mugging, with three actors. The choice was easy to make but I admit to thinking about it..for a half-second. The thing that worried me most, was that I only had six dollars in my wallet. They had followed me into my apartment bldg. I didn't go after them, but the 80 yr. old superintendant did. He ran out the door after them. Now that was something. I have never forgotten that, and I am not sure I learned from it except that I got through unhurt, and when the old man came back he called the police.

    I don't know what I owe that old man, but I have never forgotten him.

    I did find out one thing after that, however. You never know what you are going to do until it is over. I never question anyone's reaction to a situation like that, not since then.


    Mark

    PS: yeah, it looked a little silly, but that was a combination of epinephrine and trying to explain in a second language.
    Last edited by MarkF; 23rd December 2005 at 15:53.

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    Default Stupid is as stupid does...Run Forest, run...

    Paul,
    I didn't call anyone stupid.
    What I said was, it was stupid to die without a good reason.
    I'm sorry you took it personally.

    I have no problem with anyone disagreeing with me, but argument
    without good discussion behind it tends to irritate me.

    Let's take this down a tone.
    When confronted with a life threatening situation, there's alot that goes
    through your mind. In my mind, an immediate threat is someone charging at
    me with a knife. A diffused threat is when that person had turned around
    and started walking out the door. IMO there was no threat. No reason
    for the clerk to attack the robber. (And that's just what a jury might find.)

    Yes, some repurcussions are worse than dying, like having your wife and kids
    put you in the ground without a visible means of income.

    Look, I don't know the ages of most of you, or your situations.
    You guys seem to be full of piss and vineger still and I guess
    I've just grown out of it. I agree that there are times to stand
    up to bullies and a time not to. (I've done that too.)
    It's all up to you to decide.
    Just make it a good one. I'm not here just to tick you guys off,
    I just don't want anyone to follow this guy's example and get hurt.
    It's horrible for a parent to have to bury a child.
    That's just the father instinct in me.

    With that said, I think that's all I'll comment on this subject.
    You guys continue if you want.

    Just one last thing, the robber in question.
    We don't know what his motive was. He may have been a guy
    down on his luck just trying to feed his kid. He may have had
    no intention on hurting anyone. Having been down on my luck
    before, I know what the temptation can be like. No one
    calls Robin Hood a bad guy. Then again, he could have been
    a meth user...

    Peace.
    Ray Baldonade
    Chibana-ha Shorin-ryu

    "Love many, trust few and do wrong to none". Chan Yau-man

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