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Thread: Shudo and bido

  1. #1
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    Default Shudo and bido

    From Wikipedia:

    From religious circles, same-sex love spread to the warrior class, where it was customary for a young samurai to apprentice to an older and more experienced man. The young samurai would be his lover for many years. The practice was known as shudo, the way of the young, and was held in high esteem by the warrior class.
    Also, among Edo-peroid middle class Japanese, there was the prostitution of male kabuki actors (onnogata) and male homosexuality appears to have been a big literature theme for a long peroid of time, although female homosexuality seems pretty much undocumented.

    From what I understand from talking to friends (not always the greatest source), homosexuals in Japan today are usually seen as merely 'adnormal'. Manga and anime have embraced homosexuality of both genders, usually for the entertainment of the opposite gender ('yaoi' and 'yuri').

    Religion does not seem to condemn homosexuality in the peroid of history the article is refering to (roughly the Edo peroid, although assumingly up until attitudes changed). In fact it seems early Buddhism was the source of the trend, or at least popularised it. Shinto as far as I've read does not condemn homosexuality.

    This issue is a lot deeper, but the Wikipedia article summed it up better than I am able to (search Homosexuality In Japan on Wikipedia).
    Current notion: How would you define a 'skinny drink'?

    -Stephen Lewin

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    Dean Eichler der Zweite
    Bujinkan Keiko Dojo
    Owner www.korisuya.com Ninjutsu tools

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    Read Cartographies of Desire by Gregory Pflugfelder. His excellent book is about shudo, male-male sexuality in the Edo period and beyond. Shudo was a practice eventually imitated by wealthy commoners.

    Remember that what we think of homosexuality now is a post-WWII, Western idea that would've been foreign in different time periods and/or different locales. Applying our ideas of homosexuality back onto Edo Japan is ahistorical.
    Michael Wert, PhD
    Associate Professor
    History Dept.
    Marquette University

  4. #4
    loosh Guest

    Default Sexual orientation in the Edo period

    In researching the Edo period, I too was intrigued to discover the free-wheeling attitudes toward gender preferences. It was refreshing to read and write about people who missed out on the Victorian-era hang-ups that England and the United States still operate under.

    BTW, the word Geisha means "art person," and was not connected with prostitution. Early on geishas were, in fact, male entertainers.

    Lucia Robson

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    Question

    Would this attitude be comparable to the ideas and attitudes of the ancient Greek philosophers (as from what I understood it) concerning Love (being purer between males), and the importance of homosexuality in the army?
    -Amir Barak

    "You get what you pay for, But I had no intention of living this way" - Adam Duritz

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    Quote Originally Posted by Inazuma
    Would this attitude be comparable to the ideas and attitudes of the ancient Greek philosophers (as from what I understood it) concerning Love (being purer between males), and the importance of homosexuality in the army?
    Yes, that comparison has been made. The word for younger man-older man relationships such as bido and the practise in Greece is pedestry (sp?), and I'm sure there are other cultures who have practised this.

    The main difference I can see is that this practise was more wide-spread than in Greece or Roman. It appears to have been popular among Buddhists, Shogunite and as mentioned above, wealthy commoners.
    Current notion: How would you define a 'skinny drink'?

    -Stephen Lewin

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    it was also practiced in china even sun tzu said to offer young boys to the generals for that purpose
    Dean Eichler der Zweite
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    Owner www.korisuya.com Ninjutsu tools

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    Quote Originally Posted by Green_Dreads
    ...the practise in Greece is pedestry (sp?)...
    Pederasty. From the same root as pediatrician and pedophile, although technically the Greek pederasts were probably mostly hebophiles (lovers of adolescents) and not pedophiles (lovers of children) since pre-pubescent boys in most societies were still under the guardianship of their mothers.

    What was the fairly recent Japanese movie that had this topic as a subplot, released not long ago on video? (Some people saw it as the main plot, but to me the main plot was the murderer angle.)

    I can't recall either the English or the Japanese name, although I did see it only a few months ago.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brian Owens

    What was the fairly recent Japanese movie that had this topic as a subplot, released not long ago on video? (Some people saw it as the main plot, but to me the main plot was the murderer angle.)
    That sounds interesting. It was slightly hinted at in a samurai anime I saw (Samurai Champloo, 2004 I think). I never thought it was still part of the bushi 'image'. If you find the name of that movie pray tell.
    Current notion: How would you define a 'skinny drink'?

    -Stephen Lewin

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    If you find the name of that movie pray tell.

    It is Gohatto, in English distribution as Taboo. Haven't seen it myself, but some people in the sword arts forum have said good things about it.
    J. Nicolaysen
    -------
    "I value the opinion much more of a grand master then I do some English professor, anyways." Well really, who wouldn't?

    We're all of us just bozos on the budo bus and there's no point in looking to us for answers regarding all the deep and important issues.--M. Skoss.

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