Likes Likes:  0
Results 1 to 8 of 8

Thread: advice from LEO, and security officers

  1. #1
    Join Date
    Apr 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Posts
    209
    Likes (received)
    0

    Default advice from LEO, and security officers

    hello all

    I have recently been hired as a security guard by a contract security company.I will be working mostly malls. I was hoping somebody could offer advice specificly to dealing with difficult individuals , I am looking a lot towards conflict resolution techniques any good sites for this (I am presently reading verbal judo) ? and people that have had a bit to much to drink (on events like new years eve and the likes) my rules of engagement are engage only if engaged or if someone under your protection is in serius danger, stay with in the use of force, so if possible I would rather not use come along techniques (possibly as a last resort call police and then tell them to leave the premises or be arrested for trespassing, assuming management wants them gone) any feed back would be appreciated...OH also LEO what are some of the things security guards can do to improve relationships with Law enforcement officers ?

    thank you
    Ben Wallace
    Ben Wallace

  2. #2
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,166
    Likes (received)
    336

    Default

    I've worked uniformed and plainclothes security as well as LE. My advice would be:


    Gerbil Voodoo is okay. Take the principles and apply them realistically versus the somewhat stilted "Sir, is there anything I can say or do..." it sounds artificial and is pretty weak.

    Do whatever you can to get your ego out of it. Security officer's authority is extremely limited, and is not taken seriously by many people that you will have run-ins with. Let it roll off your back. I have handled more than one call where it was more about the security guard being punked than it was about a legitimate security function. That is a road to liability.

    I would say hands off- period - unless you are directly personally assaulted or defending another person from assault. That may change if you have asset recovery duties, but Mall security often defers to store security on those matters (since you are basically taking the store security officers word that the person stole).

    Do your job well and LE will have no problem with you. Avoid the ego thing, don't call the cops for every little thing and every guy that pisses you off simply because he pisses you off, and don't forget you are a security officer - NOT a law enforcement officer. This is no slam on s.o.'s, but you find a lot of LE washouts and wannabes in security work. You also have a lot of low end performers in the work as well. Some of these guys actually consider security a law enforcement profession and start to act that way - I've particularly seen this with armed security overstepping their authority.

    Of course, not all security is like this - those that aren't tend to use LE and military guys and that is a far cry from uniformed Mall or site security, or even plainclothes asset protection or bouncing work. The latter takes more skill and more knowledge of the level and limits of your authority. Know this VERY well and you will avoid a lot of the other issues.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

  3. #3
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    B.C., Canada
    Posts
    239
    Likes (received)
    11

    Default

    Well that partly answers the question I had about Kit's opinion of Verbal Judo. I just listened to a recording of a talk with the author, Thompson, and it seemed to me that it could offer some valuable insights and methodologies while coming across to me initially at least as somewhat mechanistic. Perhaps if one "made it their own" then the mechanistic aspect would no longer feel like a hindrance.

    I just picked up Vocal Power: Harness your Inner Voice to Conquer Everyday Communication Challenges : Featuring the Vocal Awareness Method
    By Arthur Joseph from the library and am hopeful that it will help develop and refine my talky skills.

    Anything else in the communication vein that members here would recommend would be appreciated.
    Al Heinemann
    www.shofukan.ca

  4. #4
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,166
    Likes (received)
    336

    Default

    I'll have to check that one out, Al.

    Now I tend to think of it like kata: there is a behavioral and language pattern that we practice in terms of citizen contacts - and incidentally in managing potential threatening contacts in a civilian self defense context. That is practiced until the mechanics are down.

    After that, there is flexibility to apply it to different situations, and to jump to different parts of the pattern depending on what is occurring in the moment. This includes starting at a low level, escalation, jumping in at a high level if the the threat cues are there, and de-escalation.

    High level may mean command presence, commanding voice, and loud, but not screaming. Breathing needs to be under control in order to give deep, belly-voice commands that are loud enough and clear enough cut through distractions, and are not out of breath, high pitched, or yelling/screaming.

    Then de-escalation comes in.
    Last edited by Hissho; 15th June 2016 at 17:00.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

  5. #5
    Join Date
    Sep 2003
    Location
    Seattle, Washington, USA
    Posts
    6,225
    Likes (received)
    117

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hissho View Post
    ...Gerbil Voodoo...
    I know it's a ten year old post, but this is the first time I've seen it. It gave me my first good laugh of the day.
    Yours in Budo,
    ---Brian---

  6. #6
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    B.C., Canada
    Posts
    239
    Likes (received)
    11

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hissho View Post
    Now I tend to think of it like kata
    Kata, I like it. Incidentally, in the interview I heard, Thompson also mentions the structure in terms of kata although he did not emphasize the flexibility and fluidity aspects as you do. It came across as more "do A then B then C" but in all fairness I have not read his books or delved into or practiced his material. I can get behind the notion of learning the pattern he presents and then making it my own, leaving the script when necessary, etc.

    As for "Gerbil Voodoo": I got a kick out of that too.
    Al Heinemann
    www.shofukan.ca

  7. #7
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Posts
    1,166
    Likes (received)
    336

    Default

    Heh - "gerbil voodoo" has been around for a while....

    RE: kata -

    Most tactical applications are actually kata. Now, I have only a small experience with koryu, but I was taught, even in early training and by different teachers, that kata was by no means a rigid form, that it was a thematic and organizational method of the body and mind, but also strategic and tactical applications, with different kata doing different things. So, for example, a kata defending an attack from the rear with a blade, while addressing the specific technique you may be doing in the kata, also taught a lot more pertaining to how to approach rear attacks in general.

    As I gained experience in the tactical world I realized how much the approach to different things, from room entry to vehicle interdiction, to active shooter and hostage rescue, were simply kata for particular situations, a basic pattern laid over a set of circumstances.

    So a Verbal Judo kata - or what I would call Threat Assessment and Communication kata, would for sure be taught A, B, C. You may even use particular language. " He does this, I say that."

    You gotta start there. Once those steps become unconscious, you can pay more attention to decision making as to when and at what point to access the steps based on the situation, and change it to fit the circumstances.
    Kit Leblanc

    In Harm's Way

  8. #8
    Join Date
    Jun 2000
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    679
    Likes (received)
    110

    Default

    I've written a number of books, profession-specific, on this subject, among them books for police, for security, and others. See link in signature.
    Ellis Amdur

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •